Epic Level MONSTERS!

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Well, the epic level handbook is out and I've taken a brief look at it. All I can say is.. WHOA! Just to demostrate the sheer [insert your personal remark here be it good or ill] of it, I hereby present the two strongest creatures from the book:

Great Worm Prismatic Dragon (CR 66)
STR 73, DEX 10, CON 65, INT 64, WIS 65, CHA 64
Hit Points: 2613, AC: 106, Damage Reduction 60/+15, Caster level 38.

The Hecatoncheires (CR 57)
It has 100 (no typo here!) attacks per round all doing 2d6+20 Damage.
STR 50, DEX 15, CON 32, INT 10, WIS 8, CHA 24.
Hit Points: 988, AC: 70, Regeneration 40, Fast Healing 50, SR 70, DR: 60/+12. Fort +39, Reflex +30, Will +27

Geez, the Tarrasque has some big brothers now..

 

Yikes..... I hope they included the rules for epic level equipment so counteract some of the insanly high damage resistances...

 

Heh. Guess I'll just have to throw in a couple of those things for our next gaming session....


[This message has been edited by Gnolyn Lochbreaker (edited July 11, 2002).]

 

Mind you creatures like this are going to be fighting PCs of say 40th level. I can wait to see what kind of feats and abilities the PCs and get.

BTW I though the release of the book had been pushed back to August. I better go see where my order it.

Edit - OK forget the August bit I just checked and WotC have a July date. Amazon still says the product is yet not released. I guess I'll still be waiting another week or so for my copy.

[This message has been edited by Voltric (edited July 11, 2002).]

 

I think we're supposed to regard these creatures the way Norse mythology regards the Midgard Serpant or Feneris Wolf.

Still ... makes me wonder what a lvl 40 character would look like to have even a slight chance against these.

And PLEASE include some info on the new items or skills from the Epic Handbook. I'm very interested!

 

Actually I'd guess level 40 chars would be toast against these. Challenge Rating 66 means, it's a good challenge for a party of 4 66th level characters

There's no limit to anything. So to beat the 60/+15 damage resistance, you could basicly craft a +20 keen, vorpal, dancing, holy, etc weapon But it'd cost over 8.000.000 gold coins.

A bit more on epic levels then. (Don't read if you don't want to )

After level 20, you get an epic attack bonus one level and a bonus to your saves the other and so on. Epic attack bonus stacks with BAB but it's different because it doesn't give you any more attacks per round than you already have. Also this EAB is the same for all classes. So a wizard will always be 10 behind a fighter and 5 behind a rogue/cleric.

You continue to get hit points and skill points as normal. And also a feat per 3 levels as usual. You also get bonus feats if you're above level 20 in one class (or you have 10 PRC levels (5 level PRCs don't count)). So, this somewhat screws multiclass chars.

Loads of epic feats of course. Some of these include, metamagic feats, stat increasing feats (by 1), saving throw increasing feats (by 4), or one that lets clerics spontaneously convert any of their spells to a domain spell etc..

There are also epic level spells like one that summons 5 adult red dragons which has a one action casting time. Or another one that is like a fireball but deals 10d6 fire 10d6 cold 10d6 lightning 10d6 acid 10d6 sound damage etc.. (erm.. timestop + 4 of this )But these spells are costly. In order to cast them, you need to get a epic spellcasting feat (or something like that) and Improved Spell Capacity feat that'll give you 10th level spell slot or higher.

And some skill checks from the book:
Balance on a Cloud: Balance DC 120
Instill Suggestion: Bluff DC +50
Detect Magic: Appraise DC 50
Cast Somantic Compoents While Grappled: Concentration DC 50+SL
Pass Through Wall of Force: Escape Artist DC 120
Swim Up Waterfall: Swim DC 80
Animate Held Rope: Use Rope DC 80

This sounds more like Dragonball-Z
The book also includes some templates.

PS: Gnolyn that sounds like fun! I'd enjoy being a lackey to that prismatic dragon until he gets bored and decides to crush me like an ant

 

Thanks for the info. Now I'm dying to get my copy more than ever. But the issue we need to keep in focus, as Mathetais pointed out, is that these creatures and chearacters are gods in their own right. PC (or anyone else for that matter) will not see them, interact with them or have any contact with them in 99.9% of all cases. If a DM is not careful with these powerful being a campaign world can get out of wack in a flash. It's all about balance. You want to give your 20th level character's something to strive for and a challange as well but keep in mind this stuff is for character over 20th level. And they are a rare think indeed.

[This message has been edited by Voltric (edited July 12, 2002).]

 

Let me chime in that this new take on the gods and "legendary creatures" is very refreshing. Dieties & Demigods (1st Ed) had very lame heros, dieties and monsters.

We ran a campaign where we battled the Greek Pantheon for a set of swords. For my archer to take down Apollo in an arrow to arrow dual is ludicrous ... but I must say, it was very fun at the time. (I was in high school and loaded up on pudding pies ... don't hate me )

 

Hmm, I guess this thread persuaded me not to get the munchkin level handbook.

GM: Go grab a pizza, I'll roll a hundred attacks for the hecatoncheires in the meantime.

Damage reduction 60/+15? It's a sad day when the Hackmaster +12 becomes redundant. I guess there's even a better version of sidewinder fireballs in the book. Not to mention swimming up waterfalls or balancing on clouds. I don't even want to see an 'overpowered' epic level prestige class with it's special abilities.

This makes even my friend's Rifts character look like a wimp, even with all his 6000 megadamage hit points.

 

How do you craft a +20 weapon? As I know the max is +5 (then you can probably load 10 other enchantments levels in it from other stuff.) to hit that beastie.

What kind of game supports levels for that btw? When I consider faerun, there's no place that would sport that sort of levels, methinks

 

This has to be one of the most stupidest things I've ever read. Whats the point of fighting something that can hit you a couple of hundred times at once. There is no point of course!!!

 

CR 66? thats nothing, look in the latest issue of Dragon Magazine on page50

The Sphinx
Colossal Construct
Hit dice: 248d10 (1,240)
Init: +0
Speed: 20ft. (cant run),
Burrow 20ft.
Ac: 120 (-8 Size, +128 natural)
Damage: 2 slams +326 melee
Face/Reach: 40 ft. by 240 ft./40 ft.
Speacil Attacks: Spell-like abilites, strangle
Special Qualities: Construct, Magic Immunity, Damage reduction 300/+30, Blindsight, tremorsense
Saves: Fort +82, Ref +82, Will +82
Abilities: Str 290, Dex 10, Con -, Int 30, Wis 11, Cha 1
Climate/Terrain: Warm Desert
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 100
Treasure: none
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement:251-750 (Colossal)

'Course, it can only be animated by the word of a Pharaoh with the Legendary Commander feat. Costs 500,000,000 gold peices, and requires a successful Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering check at DC100, the creator must be lvl100 have Craft Epic Wondrous Items feat and be able to cast Divine spells.
It then drains the Caster of 10,000,000 XP and requires the Epic spell Animate the Sphinx inscribed on a stone tablet in hieroglyphics.
This spell has a DC of 1,178 takes 12 years to cast, deals 999d6 backlash damage upon completion and requires the assistance of 100 spellcasters all contributing Miracle

 

I think, like in all things, the key here is to find a happy medium. I think that having rules for characters over 20th level is fine. Hence the Epic Level Handbook is fine. And having creatures to challange these character is also a must. But let keep it in control. Just like your average 5th level party does fight a red dragon and live neither does your typical 20th party meet these types of creatures on a regular basis. If a DM has a good story and works with the PCs to make the story the focus of the adventure then what the PC fight is not really important. These new creatures are not designed to destroy low or even high level parties. They are designed to fight epic level parties. And that is were they should be kept - out of most games.

If you play your character from 1st to 20th level over a course of years and you and the DM wnat to continue into epic levels, and the story is still good, why not? Just remember that in this case as in all power issue in D&D it's about the focus. If the focus is role-playing, as it should be, then these rules are not a problem.

 

I'm only going to say one thing about some of the things I've read on this topic: that is absolutely frightening. I thought that a Red Dragon was nasty! um... this stuff is scary!