Even more stuff I don't know or know where to read about

Remove all ads!

This was first written only about dual-classes, but more came to my mind while writing.

I do understand that Kensai/mages, anything/thief etc turns out strong in the end-game, but having some pointers would probably open my eyes to the most obvious things
I can't really see what makes the kensai/mage so great. Good, yes, but "incredibly overpowered" etc sounds a bit too much. There aren't that many mage spells that are selfbuffs only which increase melee power? Is it nuking enemies within timestop? Wouldn't magespells do more damage than a level 9 or 13 or so kensai?

As you've probably noticed now, I haven't tried this class yet, so be gentle

The same goes for others, like ranger/cleric.

And now I tried making a sorcerer, one time with 11 int and again with 18 int. This had no effect on his number of known spells or castable spells per level. Does this mean sorcerers need int/wis only for wish spells?

[ June 06, 2007, 21:30: Message edited by: Marvin^42 ]

 

Thanks, that explains quite a lot, since I didn't realise the full strength of R/C by just reading each class by itself.
I just tested creating Archers in ToB (for higher level without having to use SK), and one with 14 wisdom has the same amount of spell slots as one with 18 wisdom. And unless I'm way too tired for posting on forums, the same is true for an R/C multiclass created in tob.
BTW, is the optimal dual or multi when concerning R/C?

 

when going for the R/C i think the best (And only IIRC) is definately multi


on the Kensai/mage note, this is basically a mage with extreeme fighting capabilities, and virtually no drawbacks, on the armor side, i think it CAN wear ropes, and it's got the stoneskins and improved haste, fireshields and all more kinds of stuff.
there is also the weirdness on a roleplaying note of a char who has dedicated their life to martial arts and physical attacks suddenly chosing to throw that away and study magic

a theif/kensai is made most for the UAI and the "all atacks are backstabs" - thing, which makes it awasome, because then it can wear armor, giving a huge plus (minus actually) to AC

 

Regarding the R/C the dualclass (R7->Cl) is superior during most of the game while the multiclass is superior at the end.

 

re: kmonster:

If you consider "at the end" the moment you reach level 13 as a Ranger (power-wise) or the moment you're forced into the Ranger Stronghold (fun-wise) "at the end" then I'd agree.

Cleric spells are a necessary evil. They're really not all that much fun. Druid spells are a little better. With a multi-classed character, you're minorly stunting the growth of some spells that aren't too great anyway, but you're a melee powerhouse. BTW, I recommend you get ahold of some great leather armor, the hiding skills of a R/C are great and often ignored.

 

"At the end" is just "at the end", aka "when the game is over".


The moment when the multiclass takes the lead over the dualclass version in a party of 6 without another full cleric (Anomen or Viconia) is imho at 5,400,000 XP.

When the mc reaches ranger level 13 at 3,000,000 XP (most of the game is over then in a "normal" game btw) the dualclass can still compete quite well, even with both Anomen and Viconia in the party.

Priest spells aren't as overpowered as arcane spells, but they can make quite a difference.

 

Marvin, while I've never played a kensai, let alone a kensai/Mage, part of the alure is that a kensai, as a fighter class that's dedicated to fighting without being encumbered by armor is an excellent symbiosis with the wizard class which cannot wear armor at all. All of the value of the "normal" fighter class that comes from wearing armor being transferred into offensive skill and then combined with the arcane skills of the wizard class, without any downside makes for a potent combo.

Look at it this way. If you were to dual class a generic fighter to a wizzy, you'd lose all of the defensive "value" of the fighter class in order to cast spells. OTOH, the Kensai/Wizzy has none of the tradition defensive "value", i.e. armor, to lose in the combination, and hence becomes all the more powerful offensively.


Personally, I've never been a big fan of fighter/wizzies cuz I'm not fond of having to use spellcasting to create my warrior's primary defenses. I guess that I just like the permanence of a good set of armor which cannot be dispelled and doesn't need to be summoned via spellcasting every time I run across an enemy. But that's just me.

 

Kensai/Mages are effective but they are not the best class since they rely on buffs and spells, they can't wear armour and bracers... It means that the character is going to rely on spells and buffs to survive.

An Inquisitor could eat a Kensai/Mage for breakfast any day of the week.

Now a Kensai/Thief has no drawbacks at all once he/she gets UAI, until then you will rely on buffs all the time and that IMO is a real pain.

IMO a Wizard Slayer/Thief would be even better. With UAI there would be no limitations either and there is something to be said about a Wizard Slayer/Thief dual wielding and backstabbing (the nightmare of any spellcaster).

I always liked the Berserker kit better, they are so reliable and can negate some of the worst effects in the game when they rage.

I'd like to try a Kensai/Druid though, this character would have to use Barkskin and Ironskins all the time but it could be an interesting build.

Ranger Clerics are so powerful that it's not even funny (for all the reasons listed above in this thread).

 

I've played Kensai/Mage a few times, both solo and with a party, and I have to say that it's the most powerful class I've ever played (but i've never played a Ranger/Cleric).

All posts here seem to think that the buff-relying is a bad thing hm? Mantle -> Absolute immunity etc. are just increadibly powerful spells, as for any mage class. The good thing is that you have a really good melee fighting ability combined with the full utility of arcane casting.

As for the "no armor" thing. When you get the fighter bonuses as well as the extra AC from beeing kensai, combined with a high dexterity your AC is very low anyway. There are rings that help you with both spells (Ring of Wizardry) and AC (Gaxx for example).

Of course it depends on how you want to play your character. A powergamer will pretty much make any class a god in the end, but a K/M is indeed a very good candidate to the most powerful class available in the game.

There a few items out there that'll reduse your casting time. Combined with Imp. Alactrity, you can pretty much wipe everything out in a few rounds and whomever that doesn't die, you just take them out with your melee strength.

Of course most of these things apply to any mage dual class - Berserker is a very popular and almost equally strong. Many think that the Berseker/Mage is more powerful than the K/M.

You get enough common "armor boosts" with a high Dex, various rings, robes, spells (not a bad thing), the Kensai bonuses, weapons.

 

A Kensai/Druid would be extremely powerful just because their few buffs are the buffs we all tend to use on Druids anyway. Don't take a lot of critical planning to throw up and can be thrown up quickly.

Not to mention a few of the Druid Items are really nice. Like the staff in the end of SoA which throws BarkSkin on you for free as long as your wielding it and then gives a bonus to AC ontop of it. Combine that with the Kensai's bonus to AC and certain items and Armour doesn't much matter.

It would also very much showcase why I say that if you give a shape shifter druid the ability to cast spells while shape shifted is all you need to insanely over power them.

I play Cernd some times and even when I stop using him as a fighter and use his spells sometimes he's no more squishy than any of my mages. Just with a different spell set (such as enough firestorms to level a major metropolis on his own when he gets high level.

 

So much stuff that conduses me

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg2/character/classes/tables/priestcast.shtml#druids

Can it really be true that the increase of spells slots from 14 to 15 is that huge?

Edit: On the bottom of that page, the number of bonus spells per level per wisdom is listed, but it stops at 18. Does that mean there are no bonuses over 18, or is it just because you can't start over 18?

 

Higher WIS always grants more and more bonus spells to clerics and druids, even for 5th and 6th lvls in god-like scores.

 

I read up more about druids, and it turns out that a level 14 druid has 1,5 million exp, while they need 3,0 to achieve level 15, and that could explain the huge jump in number of spells, but that makes me wonder why it is like this. Why not split up that in 2-4 levels and increase spell slots a bit slower? Every level after 15 is at 150000 intervals.

 

*shrug*

Truth be told, I'm not sure myself. At that point, the played becomes capable of ruling a Druid Grove, but that still doesn't explain the large gap. I suspect the reason lies somewhere in PnP.

 

According to PnP rules, yes.

There is a strict hierarchy in druidic order. There are Great and Grand Druids. IIRC in order for a druid to lvl up after a certain point, he must collect vast amounts of XP and then challenge the older ones and win in a fair fight.

There can only be one Grand Druid and a few Great Druids in a region at any time.

Great and Grand druids get so many bonuses and powers to compensate that.

 

Great Druids are Regional. Hierophant Druids are either 1 worldwide or like one per continent or other really huge section of the world in Pen and Paper. Usually 1 worldwide if going by the core books but I've seen settings that differ a bit.

After they reach this lofty state and actually attain it.

The highest ranking Druid can choose to forgo his position after a certain point and attain a 16th level which grants certain powers and immunities itself. This puts the Druid on a unique new table with only 4 steps. Each one is one of the 4 classic elements of the western world. When the Druid gains enough experience and such he gains mastery over that element. Granting him some immunities and resistances as well as the ability to walk upon that elemental plane as he sees fit.

So really in PnP there is no such thing as a Druid over 20th level and there is no such thing as a Druid that's a part of The Hierarchy (or in a setting like the BG world where there are also the Shadow Druids the more appropriate term is Hierarchies) Above 15th...

 

Edit: post removed after i solved my own problem.
2nd edit: more stuff appears

I'm reading about spells on planetbaldursgate.com, and I find that i'm way overdue to really understand the turnbased system. I don't know how many turns there are in one round, or if it's the other way around, and how long one turn is. Is "number of attacks" per round or turn? If you have some knowledge you think I'd like, please don't hesitate before typing it out, or posting a good link
Thanks

[ June 16, 2007, 17:38: Message edited by: Marvin^42 ]

 

A round is meant to represent six seconds, and there are 10 rounds in a turn-- so a turn is meant to represent one minute.

I'm not sure that it always works out "exactly" like that in BG's turn based combat style, but those timeframes should give you a close approximation of what a round vs. a turn mean.

Number of attacks is per round, or per ~6 second interval.

In practical terms, if you're buffing your party before a big fight, make sure that you're casting all of your spells with turns/level durations (e.g. chaotic commands, protection from energy, etc) before the spells with rounds/level durations, like haste.

Hope that helps a bit.

 

It sure does, thanks

I'm still reading up on spells, and some have very interesting abilities. For one, Spell Turning when your attacker has Spell Turning activated too:

If the protected wizard and a spellcasting attacker both have spell turning effects operating, a resonating field is created that has the following effects (on a d100 roll): spells drains away without effect (01-70), spell affects both equally at full damage (71-80), both turning effects are rendered nonfunctional for 1d4 turns (81-97) or both casters go through a rift into the Positive Energy plane (98-00).

Is this programmed into BG? What is this "go through a rift" effect? I'd guess kill both casters, maybe by disintegration effect so they can't be raised.

Edit: oooh, one more thing that should've been in the last post: what exactly is a hit die? That seems to be a dice deciding hit points for creatures, like monster summoning I: "conjures 8 Hit Dice worth of monsters". Does this mean you summon monsters with a total hp of 8d4 or 8d6 or something like that?

2nd edit: so much interesting reading material As far as I can see, Energy Drain will drain two levels of experience from your target with no saving throw. Is this spell affected by MR? Are major enemies immune to the effect? Imagine level draining dragons to 0 and killing them

[ June 16, 2007, 18:14: Message edited by: Marvin^42 ]