F/T or F/M/T?

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Well, in my SCSII game, I decided there was no space in my powergaming party for a thief, so I installed no locks and traps. Now, several hours into the game, I realised I really missed having a thief around. Guess its restart time.

Question, since there is no need for thief skills to go above 100, should I dilute my thief and fighter skills to become a f/m/t for some added flexibility and tanking power?

TIA

 

F/M/T is definitely more powerful than F/T.

 

A lot of people see the thief as just anti-lock and anti-trap protection, but in BGII the thief is SOO much more, especially with ToB. Additionally, I think it may be a bug in the system, but multiclass characters seem to get their first HLA at the first lvl they reach AFTER the SoA xp cap (8M or something, I think, maybe). This means that your individual levels don't have to be nearly high enough for, say, 9th level spells (and they won't be for a F/M/T), but you also get about 3X the number of total HLAs, because each class is leveling up. Your HLA chart will be crouded, and I'm not sure how that will come out (may not be able to select some of skills), but be prepared for dozens of HLA skills available to a F/M/T.

Yes, a F/T benefits from this as well, but not as much.

As to the overall comparison between the two, both are purely awesome builds. Both are ridiculously powerful. The F/M/T is the better of the two. I don't think your base attack will be as high (due to lost lvls in fighter), but you'll have more HP (due to more lvls total) and access to spells and scrolls (and the scrolls are the important bit). A tank with stoneskin, mirror image, and protection from magical weapons is almost invulnerable.

 

For a solo I'd say yes, but for a party no. With UAI you can use wands and read scrolls. You don't need the mage portion. The mage HLA's for a F/M/T are pretty lame.

 

Why? After you've used assassination and whirlwind the mage spells can be pretty fun to throw around.

 

Think I could get away with it in a 4 men party?

I'm trying out a party with classes I have never used before.

1. barbarian (let's see if 80% dmg reduction is as good as it looks...)
2. wild mage (never tried wild surges before as well)
3. ranger/cleric (will I have enough healing as a multi r/c?)
4. f/m/t or f/t

 

You don't get the good mage HLA's -- only extra spells.

 

Actually I came to like the summon planar HLA mages have. Some people use them just for fighting but they have some decent spells. I think they can cast earthquake for offense and they can raise dead up to 3 members of your party mid-battle (they have 3 heal spells to get them back to full health to boot).

So in one of my ToB runs I actually found that having my mage around was more important than my cleric in battles where I figured my party would take a good amount of damage or a few deaths.

 

I always thought you got ALL of the mage HLAs if you multicasted

 

You do, except that you'll probably never be high level enough to cast them.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I finally decided to go with a plain ole multi f/m and delegate the thieving duties to a swashie10/mage. Assassination and UAI just can't compete with earlier and more high level spells

 

Yes, but a F/M/T does not reach spell lvl 9, so you can't use the spell HLAs.

Also, a F/T will actually get MORE (23) HLAs than a F/M/T (20).

 

I had Nalia and due to her Int I don't think she was supposed to be able to cast 9th level spells but she was able to just fine. I was even able to use 9th level spells with her after getting the HLA. Maybe I'm misunderstanding how the system works but aren't only mages with Int 18 able to do 9th level spells?


Granted you can boost her Int by a point in the Tower, but I think was using HLAs with her before then.

 

Characters with less than 18 INT can cast level 9 spells as long as they already know them. So, if you take a potion to boost intelligence, you can then copy the spell into your spellbook and memorize it. When the potion wears off, you cant learn any more level 9 spells, but you can memorize those you already know. I think lower INT also impacts how many spells you can know at any given level. Also, BG2 Tweaks includes a tweak to remove this, so a character with 3 INT could learn every single level 9 spell.

I think FMTs are only useful in parties with 3 or less characters. Any more, and they get starved for experience. Their spell and THAC0 progression suffers as a result.

They can be devastatingly effective if used right, but are slow to level.

 

Personally, I think the real gold in the Thief HLAs are the traps, especially TimeStop. Since your HLAs for any lvl up will be taken from the total pool, you could have a ton of TimeStop traps with a character that has high accuracy and can backstab! It's a good point that this doesn't use any of the mage HLAs and the scrolls and wands can be used with Use Any Item, though. Still, that means waiting for your first HLA to use Stoneskin and Mirror Image (not to mention hoarding scrolls for them) if you want to tank.

 

It's not very important if your backup mage gets spells half as fast as your primary mage or a little more slowly. The extra options a multiclass thief has to offer (not only HLAs) are more valuable.

 

@NOG

Yes, Time Traps are indeed awesome. With Fighter/Thiefs, you can use them with assassination for near insta kills, or with a thief/mage, you can use them to start casting your own timestop without any possible interruptions.

 

For example?

A f/m/t gets

1. traps
2. free means of dispelling illusion
3. better off hand weapon (scarlet ninja to)
4. really good weapon if using RR (short sword of backstabbing +5)
5. backstabs

at the cost of being roughly 2 levels behind a f/m and 1 less spell per level against a F/I. Might not seem like a big deal, but we're talking about getting high level spells like PFMW and contingencies here, as well as higher spell levels for stoneskin, mirror image etc

 

With xp cap:

Party of 3 or more - F/T, Solo or 2-person party - F/M/T

XP cap removed:

F/M/T

If you play a difficulty increasing mod, then by all means choose F/M/T except if you play Improved Anvil with a full party, in which case you should stick to F/T

Edit: a F/I is much more powerful than both classes throughout the game, with the exception of xp cap removed, in which case a F/M/T is more powerful, but extremely late in the game (after wizard level 30).

 

Alternatively, I've found the F/M/C to also be a killer combo, especially at higher levels. Who doesn't like Greater Contingency (or whatever it was called): Low Health: Stoneskin, Blade Barrier, Heal. Add in the armors that allow casting, dual wielding Crom Fayr and your personal favorite hammer/mace/etc. AND castings like Improved Alacrity, Timestop, whatever cleric spell you like, and you have one POWERFUL caster. My run with this soloed the entire final battle (don't remember what mods I had, but some difficulty increasing mods).

 

What mod did you have to allow F/M/C ?
AFAIR, that isn't one of the allowed multi's in BG2.