Faulty European Views

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For quite a while, the media of the European Union has been presenting a greatly faulted view of many aspects of American and International foreign policy.

Not only do many Europeans harbor a false view of the situation in Israel, but they accuse Americans as being arrogant traitors, misunderstand American views of freedom, spread conspiracy theories, theories about an attempted American imperialistic move and other things.

What is truly disturbing about this trend is how many Europeans are believing this sort of propaganda that is being spread by their media.

Also seen present is the misinterpretation of signs. Ask many western Europeans, and you'd think that the US is attempting to build a global empire. In truth, we have not conquered any nations. The people in both Afghanistan and Iraq are free to establish whatever government they see fit. We have not enslaved anyone as the European nations did during their "imperalistic" phases.

More conspiracy theory information:
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/020903adl.html
http://www.montrealmirror.com/ARCHIVES/1997/102397/news6.html
Maybe this will prove that much of what Europeans believe about America is conspiracy theory.
http://www.rense.com/general19/cons.htm
http://www.activeopposition.com/911hearing.htm

 

wow the fact that they consider israel the most dangerous country out of those is....disturbing.

 

So long as it's democratic and likes America

 

Oh boy...... here we go again.

 

ROFLMAO. Sure, as long as the US approves of it.

 

Ask many europeans and they tell you that the US is building a global empire - that's a goodie. Maybe they read people like Max Boot, Bill Krystol, Charles Krauthammer or Angelo M. Codevilla (to name a few) or more general the Weekly Standard, Washington Times or Commentary Magazine.

Try this - a genuinely american source - Power Rangers.

Some random quotes, just what I stumbled over when casually scanning rightwing US foreign policy think - all american stuff:

And I only lack the patience and time to dig up similar stuff from Perle, Wolfowitz and the others of the crew.

That isn't what the deluded europeans think of the US, it is what the right wing US intellectual elite openly propagates. And these people are quite influential, and very close to the neoccons in the US administration - the actual policy makers. With a grain of salt one could say that the Europeans you accuse to have delusions about an American Empire are better informed about your country than you are.

Americans, however, often misunderstand the nature of their power and tend to extrapolate the present into the future (the article is very much worth a read btw). You may not feel like empire, but the United States increasingly look, walk, and talk like one.

The idea of an American Empire isn't a European delusion but American reality.

Blaming Europe for stating it cannot replace a discussion at home on how America ought to be, seemingly an issue that slipped your attention.

[ January 27, 2004, 12:33: Message edited by: Ragusa ]

 

The article about European views on Israel is laughable, it is just another step in an ongoing task of painting up all criticism of Isreal as anti-semitic. It was funny that one of the article pointed out other countries as more dangerous than Isreal cause they broke UN resolutions, if that is criteria for danger then Israel may deserve their spot as they consistently ignores UN resolutions.

This is a very typical example of Pro-Israel argumentation, bring up the horrors of WW2 and most people will back of and not dare say anything negative about Israel or jews. Recently this rhetoric is even more common, someone questions for example the wall Israel is building in Palestine and the Israeli side paints up those who criticise as Anti-Semites and in the extension as evil Nazis.

[ January 27, 2004, 12:25: Message edited by: joacqin ]

 

Actually the only problem Europe has with Israel is the radical zionism, most visible in the militant settler's movement and Sharon's Likud. And Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism are two pairs of shoes. An introduction to both terms - by an Israeli and jew - Uri Avnery.

Having something against an agressive criminal policy made by jews under the banner of zionism, basically the Israeli brand of nationalism, is an entirely different thing compared to anti-semitism.
The accusation of anti-semitism is Likud's shotgun approach to foreign criticism on their extremism.

[ January 27, 2004, 11:58: Message edited by: Ragusa ]

 

http://www.kstatecollegian.com/issues/v102/sp/n088/opinion/opn-letter-hermes.html

No, Italy, France, Greece and Spain. Don't like dolce vita or savoir vivre, don't go there or adapt. Machisimo. That's for Europeans from other parts the same.

The British have the same "no carrying no ID"-fetish.

Stay away from fancy in bars.

No, sucking economy

Yep, it's a different place and the states are different too. Unbelievable deep observation. Does being different automaticly include to not have the faintest grasp of the traditions and the cultures of others ? Understanding the rationale behind something doesn't include saying:" Hey, that's great idea". It may also lead to:" aha... ahm... ok... whatever".

How the hell do you know ? Are you watching the 15 biggest European TV channels and read the 20 most important papers on a regular basis ? The most what I read and saw was quite accurate and correct in my view. Do you think there is an ongoing conspiracy in the European Union ? Not being applauding and having a different view is being misled ? Because many "don't understand" ?

 

I had to laugh heard when I read that, I was thinking if this was just some joke, that when we all got hyped up, you would come in and say, haha..


But seriously, the "fact" that most of us Europeans sees Israel as the most dangerous state(more dangerous than NK) are probably due to the following reasons:

1. Israel is closer, just right next door, that's why everything they do wrong gets more attention in the media.
What would recieve more attention in the media? Israelians knocking down a block because there is a terrorist there(Terrorists they've created themselves) or North Koreans doing the same thing?
2. Israelians are seen as fundamental and over-zealous, "We are the chosen people, and this is our land!"
3. many people in Europe see that the Israelians became the aggressors themselves, stealing land and rights from the Palestinians and neighbours, not as bad as the Nazi's did to them, but still.

You know why some supermarkets put Davidstars on kosher products?
So that Jews can see what they can eat!!! duh

[ January 27, 2004, 15:08: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

 

ok.. let's see, If you feel disgusted by the things in this thread:
http://www.sorcerers.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=000651

and if that's the same as anti-semitism.. er.. then I'm an anti-semist? I like when things make sense, from a rational point of view. You know.. ratio, common sense?

Personally I find Israel doing the hybris stunt, now I'm just waiting to see who's going to bring the nemesis hammer around.

 

Palestine is not a country (at least yet). If I'm not mistaken the question was which country is the most dangerous for world peace.

Israel already has nuclear weapons.

Can someone remind me the number of UN resolutions that Israel has violated?

As far as I know the jews in Netherlands identify themselves by waving israeli flags in the games of FC Ajax.

Well, it seems that the whole point of this article is that if someone's doesn't agree with us or our politics, he has no right in the decision-making.

 

Those are the hooligans, Ajax is a Jewish club, and hooligans use Davidstars to make themselves more loyal to the "club"

 

Oh? The States are involved in Middle Eastern diplomacy? I mean, other than lending its veto to any- and everything critical of Israel , remaining conspicuously silent about Israel's extensive nuclear arsenal , and giving Israel piles and piles of cash? How much more even-handed could we be? (That was sarcasm, if you weren't paying attention.)

The problem in the Middle East is the massive disconnect between the Israeli government, the Palestinian Authority, and their respective peoples. Israel provokes, Hamas hits back; Islamic Jihad provokes, Israel hits back. (There was a great man-in-the-street quote in the Onion a couple weeks ago: "Maybe we should stop calling it a Middle East crisis and start calling it a Middle East culture.") Real sustainable peace is and will remain contrary to both as long as the Israeli right keeps holding onto the idea of Greater Israel and the Palestinians keep believing that one day they'll drive Israel into the sea.

I know something that would work: get ten thousand Palestinian women and a hundred or so foreign reporters and pull a Mahatma Ghandi, a Martin Luther King. Non-violent sit-ins, protests, a couple hundred women ululating on the steps of the Knesset, that'd do it. I suspect they'd be joined by Israeli citizens, who are every bit as sick and tired of all this violence as their Palestinian counterparts.

This is an awfully antiquated definition of what makes an empire. We may not have troops and praetors running foreign nations, but we have stacks of cash and a notoriously unpleasant disposition when other nations don't do precisely what we want them to do. France weighs in against the war in Iraq, and next thing you know we're dumping bottles of Dom down the toilet and eating freedom fries. (Thereby displaying both our international ignorance (We're the only nation that refers to them as 'French' fries; everybody else seems to know they're Belgian.) and extremely short-sighted vision of history (Why not, say, start rebaptising Detroit, Vermont, Louisiana, or, if we carry this inanity to its logical conclusion, tear down the most potent French symbol in the States, to wit, the Statue of Liberty?)) And one of the lessons in Iraq is that we are not afraid to use our military, even when you do meet the conditions of our ultimatums.

Watch a lot of Fox News, do you?

 

I am sorry, but I know what the reports about Guantanamo, condescending comments from Rummsfeld & Co. and shady dealings of the U.S. contributed to my faulty view of this nation.
Probably our media makes all of this up, twists facts and manipulates us for their own ends. Sure.

When Europeans say they see Israel as the greatest threat of them all its more of an expression of profound dislike, I think. For the government, military, settlers and their ruthless humilating treatment of palestinian civilians and neighbouring countries.
I can only hear news of soldiers shooting children and destroying the homes of families - while said family stands watching, crying - for so long and remain sympathetic with Israel.

 

An empire doesn't necessiate the conquest of countries. The romans also didn't conquer all their vassals, the smarter ones captitulated willingly to pay their dues to rome rather than risking annihilation.

So how do I have to interprete it when Yemen votes against a resolution the US wanted and the reply from the US ambassador at the UN to the Yemeni delegate is "That was the most expensive no you've ever said."? A day later the US cut urgently needed aid for Yemen to zero.
From minors the US demand obedience and if they don't get it they are punished - "Either you're with us, or else ..."

Look at the minors in the "coalition of the willing" ... Micronesia, Uzbekistan, Albania, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia - every single country very much dependent on US money - and goodwill (especially the east europeans who want to join NATO asap) - agreed rather than risking a cut of US aid. In El Salvador, Nicaragua and Colombia the US fund the governments and the drugwar. Ethiopia and Eritrea, bitterly poor, seek US support at any price. None of these countries really has a geopolitical interest in Iraq, to the contrary, the majorities of the population of the european alliance 'partners' were anti-war. So much for "Old and New Europe". Remember the US conduct of coercive diplomacy on these countries? Those treaties about the ICC jurisdiction?

An empire doesn't necessarily need occupied countries. Finlandised vassals work just fine. There are other ways to exercise force and coercion: As long as the dependent countries and the ones of vital interest work as desired (deliver their votes/ oil cheap and timely/ do not export trouble) swell, if not, punishment up to regime change.

Again, you may not understand the US as an empire, but the United States increasingly look, walk, and talk like one - so to say: When it looks like chicken, smells like chicken and tastes like chicken it's reasonable to assume, as a working hypothesis, that it indeed is chicken. But then again, it could just as well just be my blurred european vision.

[ January 27, 2004, 17:42: Message edited by: Ragusa ]

 

Ragusa actually hit on one of the points that are in play at this present time. Historically speaking, Europe has considered itself as the cradle of the West and the most evolved and advanced nations on the planet.

For most of the history of this millennia - this has certainly been the case.

However, the rise of the United States has really challenged their position in national affairs. Europeans look across the ocean and see 50 states that consider themselves to be most evolved and the advanced.

We must also remember how Americans view Europe. Generally, Europe is seen as old, less enlightened and rather irrelevant. Americans look at the horrific ethnic cleaning that took part when Yugoslavia shattered. This event, like many others have given Americans the impression that Europe is still very primitive.

Add into this mix the well-known fact that many European states have communistic media - state controlled T.V. To an American, this looks very primitive and totalitarian.

These statements are broad generalizations, but they are made to make a point. Europeans know our sentiments and views, but we simply don't care about theirs.

Friction is inevitable.

 

Of course, the so-perceived US notion to be the non-plus-ultra of the human evolution is strongly underlined by their most stunning cultural achievements - Britney Spears, the Jerry Springer Show and fast food. Yes, I've been caustic

More seriously - the problem of friction isn't a new one:

Add their notoriously short attention span - it's as if the US are unbearable by nature

I think Frances Trollope really put it best when she wrote to Fanny Wright:

[ January 27, 2004, 18:55: Message edited by: Ragusa ]

 

Yes, "ethnic cleaning" - Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee.

 

Ragusa, I normally line up with you on these sorts of issues, but here you're going a bit too far.

This thread is entitled 'Faulty European Views', not "Miscellaneous America Bashing." Let's stay on topic, otherwise you'll prove these people right.

You're usually so nuanced and well-researched, but this is just bashing for bashing's sake. Yes, Jerry Springer is American. So is T.S. Eliot. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.