Fox Hunting

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This is probably a question more for the Brits

Do you agree or disagree with fox hunting? Personally, I'm against it. More for the fact that I disagree with the way that it is done. I don't like the idea of an animal being chased by a pack of dogs and horses to be ripped apart.

What do you think?

 

Fox hunting was banned in 2004 in the UK, Silvery...

I agree that pests often need to be driven off. I do not agree with methods employed.

Urban foxes tend to be a greater problem nowadays though.

 

It was indeed, however, I meant to talk about what hunting was. A lot of people still think it is a tragedy that it was banned

 

I have always held that if a person desires to hunt for sport or food, he should do so in a way that respects nature and our role as the top species in nature. That means you kill the animal in the quickest way possible and minimize its suffering. It is my understanding, limited that it is, that fox hunting does not involve shooting the animal or cutting its throat quickly so as to minimize suffering. I therefore am not fond of the practice, regardless of how historical it may have been.

Of course, if a person is hunting out of necessity (that is, to protect his flocks of property from a nuisance animal) then I can understand using whatever method necessary, even if it would be considered inhumane. But even in such cases I believe it is possible to kill the animal quickly so that suffering is minimal.

 

I am shocked that it was legal up until 2004. Doesn't the fox basically get ripped apart by a pack of dogs? Maybe it's because I'm a yank, but it never made sense to me - using dogs to chase down a fox. Why not just shoot it and be done with it?

 

There you go again Aldeth -- typical American. "Just shoot the damn thing."

Bloody uncivilized, shooting defenseless creatures like that. At least the fox has a sporting chance to outrun the dog pack. Please... fox hunting IS the sport of Kings. The peasants made it illegal just because they couldn't afford it. Damn shame.

 

Fox hunting happens in some parts of America as well, some areas they tend to target coyotes. Also happens in New Zealand, Australia, France and others.

Also get cock fighting and dog fighting still legal in many countries, and happening behind closed doors in many more.

 

I've always been strongly against it, as with Hare coursing (The other recently banned blood "sport")

It's funny how hunt supporters have tried to justify the "sport" in the past (I'm paraphrasing somewhat)

1 - They're a pest and need to be controlled
2 - But many more foxes get killed on the roads than ever get killed by the hunt
3 - But we maintain the countryside in the way people like to see it as it helps encourage foxes - if we didn't have hunting then we'd just get rid of the copses and hedgerows and turn it all.

I could understand 1 if it wasn't for the fact of 2, which indicates it has little impact on numbers and 3, which indicates the hunters actively encourage an increase in fox numbers for their games.

I'm not entirely happy with hunting peasants either, though I understand the amount of feed put out for the young pullets is of a significant help to the smaller native bird species.

I can understand the farmers need for controlling deer and rabbits, both of which we have in large numbers in Hertfordshire. However, I love watching the Muntjac, Fallow deer and Hares in the backgarden. Rabbits we see rather less often.

 

Erm...I'm hoping you meant pheasants there. Hunting peasants only leads to trouble. Unless they're wearing tracksuits, then it leads to a community service medal

 

The chief problem with the hunting ban is it's utterly unenforcable. No-one has been successfully prosecuted under the law since its inception. Hunts have either taken to chasing the animals down with the dogs and shooting them before the hounds get them, or just ignoring the new regulations. Consequently, the sheer amount of time the Commons spent debating and passing a law that doesn't actually function could definitely be called into question. It just wasn't a big political issue among the general populace, either.

There is the libertarian argument about supporting the rights of people you don't agree with, although I'm not sure how far I'd drag that out, in this case. I'm fairly ambivalent about fox hunting, overall, as it's very rare a fox actually gets "torn apart" as such. It's more likely to take longer to die from a gunshot wound, strangely. It isn't something I'd argue for, mind. As Carcaroth pointed out, it's a rubbish method of pest control, the only saving grace of it being it prevents farmer's taking the matter into their own hands. Since cattle farmers whose herds have been threatened by TB have been known to deploy nerve agents against badger setts, it's better to encourage the poultry boys to stay at home and not try DIY culling.

Still, I don't see how 1 fox -vs- dozens of hounds counts as "sport". Give the fox a rifle, some clips and a bandana... now that's sport.

 

It's an old-fashioned practice, where the definition of 'sport' was more akin to 'competition' than 'exercise'. It was kept alive so long because of arcane monarchic rules, but nowadays it has become just too ghastly to tolerate.
Another old british rule, is that only the monarch may eat swan, or allow it to be eaten. Since they used to wipe their backsides with swan necks, it can be compared to eating toilet-roll cartons.
I'm glad that nowadays people make the connection between animal cruelty and cruelty towards other people. In most atmospheres in the west this can be taken for granted. Asia is a bit behind, but getting better. But if a korean restaurant gave ME a fish in a glass of water, to use as an ashtray, then I'd tear the restaurant down with my bear hands. Tolerance of cultures and traditions only goes so far. I'm also disgusted by the kosher/halal thing, where blood must be ritually removed from an aminal's body. The most efficient way to do this, is by making the animal's heart pump out all the blood, requiring it to die slowly.
[QUOTE='Kashrut' in Wikipedia]Kashrut and animal welfare

Kashrut prohibits slaughter of an unconscious animal, and the slaughtering is done by cutting the front of the throat first. Some animal rights groups object to kosher slaughter, claiming that it can take several minutes for the animal to die and can often cause suffering. Since the spinal cord is not severed completely at the first cut, it is thought that the slaughtered animal's nervous system continues to function during the initial moments of the slaughter, causing the animal to undergo an agonisingly slow and painful death. In 2003 in the UK, an independent advisory group - the Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC) - concluded that the way Kosher (and Halal) meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals and should be banned immediately. Kosher and halal butchers deny their method of killing animals is cruel and expressed anger over the recommendation.

In April 2008, the Food and Farming minister in the UK, Lord Rooker, stated that Halal and kosher meat should be labelled when it is put on sale, so that the public can decide whether or not they want to buy food from animals that have bled to death. He was quoted as saying, "I object to the method of slaughter ... my choice as a customer is that I would want to buy meat that has been looked after and slaughtered in the most humane way possible.". The RSPCA supported Lord Rooker's views.[/QUOTE]
You know, I can't help but see a connection between (animal) cruelty / violence in general, and the prevalence of circumcision. Maybe it's all due to a buildup of tension and (sexual) frustration
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Global_Map_of_Male_Circumcision_Prevalence_at_Country_Level.png

 

I haven't been fox hunting in years. Mind you I was never any good at it, and I was seldom sober when I did it. But I was in a bar, and there was alcohol available for purchase...

Oh wait, that's not what you meant...

 

Hunting with dogs is banned, however fox hunting itself is still legal. You will find that it is a very unpopular thing in the UK, its more an 'old school' sort of thing, though they are feeling repercussions, maybe not from the law but from locals themselves, where many hunts have been prevented by protesters and the other thing that has happened locally in my area is that dry cleaners are refusing to clean red hunting jackets.

 

I generally think any hunting that is not aimed at procuring food is wrong. Mind you, there may be better ways to procure food, but if the aim is procuring food then the means of death will generally be as quick, painless, and untraumatic as possible. An unsuspected bullet to the brain or heart of a deer is about as quick and painless a death as you can ask for. Being chansed down and torn apart by dogs, well, isn't.