Fundamentalistic Traditions?

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I recently saw an interview with ex- or not-so ex-cocainiste Whitney Houston where she said she had done wrong, that drugs are bad and that she did evil and that it was bad for her children etc some more sickening blablabla. I was repulsed and disgusted by this display of self-accusation and self-humiliation.

Personally I think that interviews with people deep down and low are unfair and humiliating - eventually these people don't have full self control and are actually exploited by sensation-seeking media. However, that is not the point. I am curious to find out why she did that?
No one does that for fun. And even when her manager told her to do so - he must have had a reason to suggest that - it must serve a function.

She finds a greedy audience. Why? Even though beeing psychically and physically ill she seems to deserve no mercy from her audience - and why? Because it was her fault? Sure, no one forced her to take drugs. As a drug addict she's an outcast and to get back into society she seemingly has to *purify* hereself in the eyes of society as an act of penitence. It seems to be expected. I have seen this kind of ritual a few times and it has always repulsed me.

Is it just the other side of the star-cult? Like: "We help your star to rise and the price is that we also show how you fall. Good news are nice, but bad news sell even better." Or is this part of the fundamentalist religious tradition that seemingly found it's way in the american society?

What surprizes me is that this view, despite all religious elements, doesn't seem to offer any mercy for the fallen. It seems as if a cold society demands penitence - if you're sick, help yourself but we want to see something before you are accepted again.
And that kinda does not match the terminology of the political correctness: If she's a drug addict she has a *problem* and is *handicapped* - no one wants to hurt her verbally, even more since she's *afro-american*. But she's expelled anyway.

Any opinions?

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PS: In anticipation of the anyway unavoidable off-topic posts: This thread is *not*, repreat, *not* about people who take drugs and *not*, repeat, *not* about Whitney Houston
It is intended to be about the influence of religious elements and political correctness in the american society.

[ December 06, 2002, 11:03: Message edited by: Ragusa ]

 

I noticed that in Whitney Houston's latest video that they had to make her appear 'fatter' by computer enhancement, so she's not looking very good. I think cocaine has done her very badly and she looks very ill

Teeny
(Ok, i wanna be thin, but not like that)

 

Supervising many threads here in whatnots I have come to see that the 'suit yourself' argument seems to be common and strong in american politics.It seems like every bad thing that can happen to a person is solely their own fault, poverty, drugproblems, impregnation, mental illness and so on. Sure atleast in some of those things the final responsibility is always on the individual but there are also lots of other factors that play in that seems to be ignored.
Therefore all problem you can have in the american society seems to be very guilt and shame burdened which makes it even harder to admit to oneself that a problem exists or to seek help.
The majority of the people seem to think it is the poors own fault that they are poor and that they would get filthily wealthy if they just pulled themselves together, atleast that is what the recent elections tell us.
In the case of Whitney Houston I just think that people like to gloat and that she by going out like that gets some sympathy together with the gloating which makes it easier for her to sell records in the future.

 

Ragusa ... just to be fair, I don't think that its the religious influence in America that is so cruel and unforgiving ... its the Roman-esque "put them in the Coliseum and let the lions eat them" mob mentality that has been around for eons.

In America we have very few hobbies:
* Waging war on Third World Countries
* Watching Reality TV
* Eating Carbohydrates
* And Watching our Stars Fall

Take that away from us, and you leave a very big hole in the American soul.

 

If she doesn't look good and too skinny, it's because she hardly sleeps and eats, and NOT because of cocaine, unless she snorts 3 or more grams a day. And if she did THAT, she would be dead by now.

 

I watched that interview as well and had a compeletely different take on it. She's messed up and should step back and get the help that she needs. But that is not what you want to discuss.

I have never understood the way that society (blame it on America all you want, it happens in many places) treats those who achieve success in the public eye. They are people just like the rest of us. They have problems and issues and baggage just like everyone else. Fame and money do not make the problems go away. They often introduce many new problems.
I agree that some fans will worship someone on the rise/top and kick them on the way down. I believe that this is mostly due to the press. They bring these stories to the forefront and make a big deal of the problems of the famous. Many people seem to delight in this while ignoring the problems that they have in their own lives. I believe that this is a common human behavior and is not an exclusively American tradition.
I don't know what you are talking about when you link religion to the problem of forgiving these people. They don't owe us anything. Why should they need the "forgiveness" of their fans?
To respond to joacqin, I believe that personal responsibility is important. I agree that the factors contributing to the problem need to be examined, but only to help prevent similar problems in the future. If someone does not take responsibility for their own actions (such as taking drugs), then they will have a hard time taking the steps to correct the problem. Taking responsibility for yourself is empowering. When you recognize that you have some control over your life and have the power to make choices that will either hurt or help you, then you can escape the paralysis of your situation. I speak of this from personal experience.

 

I think it has something to do with the all famous people being a rolemodel to a certain group of people.

Whenever one gets 'famous' and becomes a 'celebrity' one gets fans and people who want to be like the 'celebrity', in the beginning it always goes good but in most cases something happens.

It's the same with that britney incident a while back where she got too sexy and she put out the wrong expression too her fans. This is the same case but with drugs.

The problem here IMHO is the mob so to speak. Those celebrities are still human and have human weaknesses (not that I approve some behaviour of some celebrities)

In the case of whitney, I think the manager wants to apologize to the public that she was a wrong rolemodel, they won't say it out loud but that's the message I think.

Everyone has a person/celebrity who they are fan of, but some take it to the next level and unless that stops there will be more speeches like that.

 

"
In America we have very few hobbies:
* Waging war on Third World Countries
* Watching Reality TV
* Eating Carbohydrates
* And Watching our Stars Fall
"

You missed a few that come to mind immediately.

* Going to the Gunrange.

* Sending Cash to countries that have natural disasters.

* Putting nifty things like Global Positioning Satellites into orbit, and letting everyone use them.

 

Also missed another, although it might just be America's leaders that have this hobby.

*Saying that the rest of the world can go to hell, we need to put that much pollution into the Earth.

Hey, just a sec, isn't this thread about something else, not poking fun at Americans? Oh yeah.

Political correctness, well thats a stupid idea now, especially as it's got way out of hand. And it's not just America it's in so please don't feel alone . The religeous influence in American society, well, I've only heard the mad stories that go around . It seems to me that America's went hypocrytical, but then so has the rest of the world.

 

I'm confused Ragusa since I didn't see the interview. I think you're saying she exhibited a lot of self-recrimination? I, as a member of American society, haven't heard a word about Whitney Houston in probably a year, at least a few months, until you brought it up.

So, I don't think this is a case to show America having fundamentalist values.....honestly, I'm not sure what you're getting at here. That is absolutely sincere, I'm just not sure what you mean.

But, since I think you may be talking about fame. And since I think you may be implying that American's like to see heroes fall and then America pounces on them and does so for some fundamentalist/religious reasons I'll just say I think that isn't at all the case.

I think PEOPLE, not just Americans, like to see heores struck low sometimes. Look at the old Greek mythology, you see the same thing. Look at England and the way they look at their royal house, you see the same thing. Look at Mexico and the way they approach some of their boxing and soccer stars, you see the same thing. In America I like to think about Michael Jordan and the way so much was made of his gambling when he was in his prime.

It has nothing to do with America. In my opinion it has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with human nature. For some reason, we like to see heroes fall sometimes. More importantly and not being mentioned, we also like to see them rise from the ashes. Perhaps it's because in their failure they become more human and understandable. I dunno. I think it a big mistake though to attribute this to America, as it is a world wide phenom. and I don't see it having anything to do with funamentalism.

If that's even what you were talking about.

 

Let the record show:

GPS is now fully un-encrypted.

The acutal "theoretical" accuracy is just under one millimeter.

In reality, it's just a tiny bit under one centimeter.

Everything GPS does is time dependent. It is based on time. So your position can only be as accurate as the receiver, and not everyone uses an actual atomic clock for receiving the signals.

So, if you are using an actual atomic clock (not radio signals from an atomic clock 1000km away), you can plot your position to very close to 1mm. Velocities (note: speed and heading) to within .5cm per second.

If you're using the normal osillator circuit, then it's only as accurate as the osillator.

Yes, it was encrypted all through the 80's and 90's.

No longer.

This is the sole reason why GPS ILS (Instrument Landing System) has been appoved in conjunction with the older Microwave systems.

 

Drugs are bad mkay. Nomatter where you come from.

 

Ejsmith, your last post is a little bit

*hint* that's what PMs are there for since no one will understand your post out the context ....

 

Drugs are bad, hmmm'kay?

edit
sorry nobleman, didn't see your post there.

[ December 06, 2002, 01:06: Message edited by: MauricioEiji ]

 

Laches I have to agree with you here. This is no more an American syndrome than it's fundamentalist.

We have a great tradition here in the UK for building up heros through a worshipping media. Then we put their lifes under a microscope and are up in arms when they are wighed up and found to be light at times. Strange, because we can forgive everyone except our role models for being human.

Thumbs down to the "lets see how high we can build them up before we knock them down" style of media reporting we see these days.

 

Quite probably I have chosen a bad example using Whitney Houston. I think I should clarify what I mean with fundamentalistic traditions:

The USA are a country where religious awakening is a part of society, and has been right from the start - think about the old pilgrim fathers and the modern TV preachers, baptists and the popularity of islam under the african-americans. Public witness of religious orientation seems pretty common in the modern US society.

What I suggested was that actually the so-perceived self-accusation, penitence in public derives from that tradition and became part of the public behavior.

I think that admitting to have done wrong in public, asking the fans for forgiveness and bull**** like that actually is not part of the star cult but deriving from what I pointed out above.

[It's spelled Whitney, btw.] -Tal
[Would I listen to her I would know , but thanks]

[ December 06, 2002, 11:01: Message edited by: Ragusa ]

 

Public penance. Hmmm. Like a Scarlet Letter syndrome.

Sure, I can see it having religious causes. I doubt it's confined to America, and I doubt that it's demanded by the public so much as by the stars themselves.

I think, if anything, that it's a manifestation of the need for forgiveness. Stars have generally given up on religion, so whom do they naturally turn to when they feel they need forgiveness? The public, of course. The ones who made them stars.

Interesting thought, Rags.