Gangraped and murdered

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6384781.stm

Do you think that Abeer Kassem Hamza al-Janabi's attackers would have received harsher sentences if she had been an US citizen? I have read about people in the US that have murdered one single person yet received the death sentence.

 

They all should have been hung by their short and curlies and beaten with a barbed wire till dead...

 

It's not who they murderered, it's who they were working for when they did the killing.

Death sentences draw attention, and these boys' bosses don't want to draw attention to the fact that this is what war is like instead of some bright-eyed and shiny faced future hopes defending freedom, justice, God, country, and the virtues of man.

Whole thing stinks. But it stank from the very beginning. I'm sick of the people who can think that war could be justified. It can't. War and justice have nothing to do with each other. When you go killing, when you go to war, no matter what high minded idealistic excuse you'd have, you bring out the worst in people. This is what you get, and they try to sweep it under the rug. It's sickening.

 

Every time I hear about this it makes me wish someone would slowly torture those ****ers to death.

 

If it was a federal case (such as murder that involves crossing state lines) or in certain states like Texas or Florida they'd be on Death Row right now, assuming they couldn't work out a plea bargain (which I doubt a DA/ADA would give them, seeing as it would be an absolutely terrible political move). However in states like Minnesota, they'd be serving multiple life sentences without parole (along with the sentences of the lesser charges), since not all states have capital punishment instituted.

 

Sickening, just too sickening. Death penalty is too good for this kind of filth.

 

I happen to be in favor of capital punishment (unlike many who post on the boards), but more and more the US is moving away from such valid forms of punishment as a firing squad (the means of execution in the military).

I find it ironic that people are questioning the validity of a 90 year sentence for a man who gave testimony against others in the crime. A 90-year plea-bargain is a hefty sentence for someone cooperating with the authorities. I don't know of many governments that would have executed Barker under the same set of circumstances.

Cortez is being sentenced to life without parole -- he'll never leave prison. I would not consider that a light punishment either.

Cuchulainn: You obviously don't read that much about US justice. There are far more murderers back out on our streets than on death row. More murderers are serving in prison right now than have been executed over the last 50 years. The ratio of executions to murderers is quite low.

Iku: A 90 year sentence and a life sentence do not constitute 'sweeping under the rug.' These are harch punishments by any nation's standards -- you're way off base there.

IS: Your timing is a bit off. Murder cases usually take a while to conclude. Two convictions with two more on the way is not shoddy work. Plea bargains are often used when there are several people involved so they can convict the trigger man (which is being done in this case). That Cortez received life as a plea bargain indicates the death penalty will be pursued for the others. By the way, this IS a federal case.

As I said, I'm for capital punishment. I hope they execute Green if the events listed in the report are true.

 

I'm aware it is a federal case, but if the crime had taken place on U.S. soil within one state it would not have been a federal case (which most likely would have been the case, rape and murder are state statues). For the sake of illustration, if this case had been a group of police officers who gang raped a girl and then killed her and her family (which would be the closest to the current situation), it would be a very high profile case in which public opinion would oppose plea bargaining. Now DAs will still bargain if they have to, but DAs are elected officials and to tend to listen to public opinion when it comes to sentencing.

 

Well, as T2B pointed out, some states do not have the death penalty, and with the exception of states like Texas and Florida, those states that have it do not enforce it often. One got a life sentence and the other one got 90 years, which is essentially a life sentence. I don't know how old he is, but he had to be at least 18 to go to Iraq, meaning he will have to live to be at least 108 to get out, and most likely older.

So what we have is, in effect, two life sentences. Barring use of the death penalty, there really is no greater sentence that can be given. I agree that if this had been done by police officers on U.S. soil it would be getting far greater publicity. However, if that state did not have the death penalty, then the sentences couldn't have been greater than what they currently are - they would be in prison for the rest of their life. I am assuming that you, like most people on this board, do not favor the use of the death penalty. So unless you are saying that you would like to see them convicted to multiple life sentences - and that would be for symbolic value only, as you can't actually serve more than one life sentence - then what result would you prefer?

EDIT: I probably should add that I am in no way condoning the actions of or making excuses for the soldiers involved, and that I think spending the rest of their life in prison is an appropriate punishment for what they have done. I wouldn't lose any sleep if the remaining soldiers who have yet to be convicted end of getting the death penalty either. I just feel it is inappropriate to suggest that they are getting off "easy" because the victims weren't Americans, and that the crime did not take place in America.

[ February 22, 2007, 21:14: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]

 

They're soldiers, they disgraced their unit and country with their actions. They committed murder against the civilian population of the country they were ordered to protect. They should all recieve the death penalty. I fail to see two ways about this, they're soldiers and are held up to higher standards of responsibility than regular civilians.

 

If they're going to spend the rest of their lives in prison, I don't see how the sentence could be harsher.

They could be executed, sure, but it could be reasonably argued that living in a cage for seventy years is worse than a bullet to the head.

 

I'm against death penalty, but I'm not in favour of making life easy on them. Admittedly, I don't know how bad it is in prison and I would never like to get there, so I shouldn't be talking about term lengths. However, what I want to say here is that some people make it to the army who shouldn't. Also, some acts are tolerated by some people up the ladder. It's not like such things are committed by your typical soldier and totally outside the sight of a superior officer.

I wonder if the public sees it the same way as if they gang-raped and killed an American girl. Or as if Iraqi terrorists did that to one. Would islamic terrorists gang-raping an American girl while shooting her family, then shooting her, escape death row?

 

But they're soldiers. It's commonly accepted that the moment you sign up your rights and responsibilities are different than that of a normal citizen. Therefore their punishment should be the military standard for such infractions: death.

 

This thread may be one of the most asinine ones I've seen on these boards. Let me see if I have this correct. Some U.S. soldiers committed probably one of the more heinous crimes that a person can commit. They either pled guilty or were found guilty and sentenced to 90+ years in prison or were given life sentences (like 90 years isn't a life sentence). Now some of our more enlightened posters are claiming US justice wasn't harsh enough? Somehow these sentences are being considered a slap on the wrist? That the soldiers got preferential treatment? Things are getting swept under the rug?

I always thought our european friends considered the US barbaric for using the death penalty, and now that it isn't being used I hear outrage. I may have to ask amnesty international how they feel about this, is it a step in the right direction?

In the words of Charlie Brown "Good Grief"

 

never encountered that position here

 

TGS,

I (for once?) completely agree with you. As I am (mostly) against the death penalty I am more than happy with these sentances imposed. "Sweeping under the rug" would have been a dishonourable discharge and five years in prison. Hopefully the others involved will now be similarly tried and punished (though I'm not sure how much they can trust Cortez' testimony - he seems willing to say anything to escape death row)

On a personal and emotive level I would quite happily torture the bastards to death, but it wouldn't exactly acheive anything.

 

What those bastards had done is probably the worst thing you can do to a child. They actually carried out what most people would never even think about.

 

Ehh...well...Let me try to get this straight. I'm not for a death sentence. Not even for these guys.

And 90 years is 78 years more than they could ever get in Finland where sentenced to "life" is only 12 years. (Correct me if I'm wrong on this...)

So as a punishment, I'd say it's plenty. I think that death is much easier than spending the rest of your life, several decades in prison. Suicide might seem as a welcomed release at some point of such a life. And they'll have plenty of time to repent what they did. I hope they will.

It just struck me as odd that a country that has death sentence as a punishment doesn't apply it to this case. As to why, the reason for this might be to avoid even more negative publicity for a situation that's already as bad as it is. Bad PR what with the talks about elections already started and all.

The same goes for why they haven't added the additional value of multiple life sentences.

It's not required, the murderers have gotten what they deserve, and a death sentence would be easier for them than 90 years in prison. I bet other inmates will just love these guys, I'ev heard that rapists in general are one of the lowest positions you can be in the hierarchy of life in prison

But as what they did is sickening, I think that if there is a PR reason why they weren't given death sentences it makes the whole thing even more sick. Now it's a good thing if it leads to a harsher justice for these guys, as I think that it does, but treating matters of justice as PR in a case like this when bad PR is something that you'd like to avoid isn't a good thing.

I might summarize my view like this: as private individuals, they get what they deserve. But a death sentence would bring more public awareness to the fact that this is what happens when you go to war. I oppose war more than I oppose death sentence. I do oppose them both. Death sentence is not justice, war is even less. But this kind of horrible things that war brings inevitably about need all the publicity they can get. And if a country is already using death sentence as a punishment and a change to that is not to be expected...

What I was wondering was that why this case in specific is an exception? That's just something I'd like to know. The excact reasoning behind the ruling. If they did decide that justice is served better this way, without any current political matters influencing their decision, then justice is served. However, if this decision was brought up by the fear of bad publicity, then it is extremely questionable, even if you take into consideration that you avoid the mistake of a death sentence.

[ February 23, 2007, 15:27: Message edited by: Iku-Turso ]

 

The girl was Iraqi, and some Americans still believe that Iraq was responsible for 11/9.

Anyway how many times have you hear people say "We should turn the entire middle east into a a glass factory" or "we should wipe out the entire middle east and turn it into vacation resorts for Americans"?

 

If it's true, I can't help it but think they get what they deserve. Not just the rape, but the killings and the entire thing... S**t. I'm not sure I even want to begin to imagine what would have happened if the girl was American. Just look at what happens when Britney Spears shaves her head.