Getting Defensive

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My latest thought - haven't done it yet, but it may eventually qualify as a guide, is going for a much more defensively minded build. This would sort of be the opposite end of the spectrum compared to the ranger-conjuror, who pretty much sacrificed everything in favor of offense.

It would be a much more magic-oriented build that I have in mind, which of course would focus on the crowd control skills of the under-utilized illusion school. That said, even though it's a defensive build, I am still inclined to specialize in light armor, as that is no impediment to reaching the armor cap. Use of a shield will allow me to reach the armor cap, even while only wearing elven armor. (I'll have to triple craft a set of alchemy gear for super charged smithing potions, and do the ancient knowledge quest in order to get there with just elven, but it's possible.)

I'm leaning that way because perks are going to be at a premium with this build. I think I can pretty much make this character immune to most forms of damage while blocking, and certainly if you micromanage everything to get to level 81, you'd have perks to spare. But if it's going to turn into a guide, I'm going to have to get the perk placement down to around 60 to make it worthwhile. One of the greater achievements of the ranger-conjuror was the build was done at level 52, and everyone can get there. Anything beyond that was just gravy.

Magic resistance also seems to be not a problem, even without investing in the alteration perks if I use a shield. It will require me to take a Breton (25%) and do the Book of Love quest (15%) and the Lord Stone (25%). That gets you to 65%, but instead of spending two points in Magic Resistance, you could instead simply place resist magic as an enchantment on the shield. I know that 30% is definitely possible, although I am unsure what you can get it to with a triple crafted enchanting potion. If you can get it to closer to 40%, you wouldn't even need the Lord stone. (Technically it would get you to 80% magic resistance, which would be close enough.)

It's definitely going to take some fine tuning with significant perk expenditures in Illusion, One-Handed, Block, Archery, Enchanting, and Alchemy. Taking alteration out of the picture, and limiting smithing to just 3 perks (I probably need arcane, so arcane, steel, and elven) seems like a good idea. It's in development. I don't know what to name it.

(As an aside, the unarmed build becomes completely unplayable at higher levels, unless you drop the difficulty to apprentice. Apparently, the unarmed damage you deal doesn't scale with smithing improvements to your gauntlets. You get whatever the base armor rating on the gauntlets as your damage. Daedric gauntlets have a defense of 18. So it's 18, the 15 bonus of being a khajiit, and then the maximum fortify unarmed enchantment you can get is 20 on the gauntlets and the ring, leaving you with a maximum damage of 73. Obviously inadequate.)

 

The two separate ones are because the item you get for becoming thane of solitude can be disenchanted for a separate magic resistance enchant. So it's not just your game it's in all of them. Any regular item with magic resistance gives you one magic resistance, and the shield of solitude gives you a second, with the shield specifically being the one you want giving the enhanced MR.

Although 45% MR was more than I thought was possible. Regardless, 45%, +25% Breton, +15% Agent of Mara already places me at the cap.

 

I've done a bit more planning on this guide and character build, and limiting the amount of perks definitely seems problematic.

Part of the problem is that there are so many "required" perks. You'll get a lot of them just from using the skills, but this character will necessarily be a late bloomer.

For starters, if you're going to triple craft, which you kind of have to to make a highly defensive character in light armor, you're looking at:

Enchanting - 8
Alchemy - 7
Smithing - 3 (just steel, elven, and arcane)

Then you throw in the necessary sunk points of 4 in pickpocket, 3 in speech and 3 i sneak.

We're at 28 perks and we haven't spent a single perk toward an actual combat skill yet. (I guess you can argue that sneak is somewhat combat related.) But the bottom line here is that while it is possible to get this character going with under 50 perks, to truly optimize him, we're going to have to exceed that number a bit.

Part of the problem with that is we're using crowd control skills in the illusion tree. Illusion has 13 perks associated with it, and the only truly unnecessary one is master illusion casting. And the reason for this is that there isn't anything you can do with a master level spell that you couldn't do with an adept or expert level spells with the other perks.

Yes, the area of effect nature of the master level spells is nice, but isn't necessary if you are willing to cast a lesser spell more than once. And given that the master level spells have a casting cost of around 1000 magicka (Mayhem is 990 and Harmony is 1050 base), and we aren't going to slap on three or four different reduce illusion cost pieces with this build, those spells are going to be out of reach anyway. Comparitively, the lesser version of those spells are Frenzy (costs 210) and Pacify (costs 290).

So you can dual cast the other spells and still be well less than the cost of a Master level spell, and dual casting will affect everything with the other perks invested. I'm assuming I will be wearing two pieces of reduce casting cost gear, and have an illusion skill of 100. If my calculations are correct, I'm looking at an actual casting cost of about 320 magicka on the master level spells, but just 125 on the expert level ones, even dual casting them.

So 12 perks in illusion. We're at 40 now. And we still need some combat skills.

Looking at the bare bones for an optimal character, I'll need 6 in archery (Overdraw 5/5 and Eagle Eye), 7 in one-handed (5/5 in Armsman, Fighting Stance, and Savage Strike), and 4 in blocking (Shield Wall, Quick Reflexes, Power Bash, Deadly Bash). Technically, you don't need anything in block beyond Shield Wall and Quick Reflexes, but you're wasting the shield slot if you using a shield and aren't bashing with it.

Adding everything up, and you come up with 57 perks, or a level 58 character. To me, that's just doable enough to make this character be guide-worthy if it works as well as I hope it will. And that's because unlike the ranger-conjuror, you're working on many more skills - there's a built in assumption that you'll be at 90+ in no fewere than 10 different skills - and therefore you're going to top out your character level at a significantly higher number than the ranger-conjuror where the assumption was you'd only need to get really high in 8 skills. So the number of perks required is commensurate with the number of skills you're working on.

As far as gear goes, you're using elven as your top notch stuff, unless for some reason you prefer heavy armor, in which case you can go with just steel (and save one perk point). But since we're triple crafting here, you'll be at the armor cap anyway, and once you factor in all the damage bonuses you'll receive from enchanting and smithing improvements, the extra damage offered by dragonbone weapons as compared to elven weapons is superfluous. (Dragonbone weapons would still be a lot more, but you're going to be regularly one-shoting stuff anyway.)

Proposed enchantments:

Armor: Fortify Illusion and Choice (I would think Forify Health would be be the most sensible)
Helm: Fortify Archery, Fortify Illusion
Gloves: Fortify One-Handed, Fortify Archery
Boots: Fortify One-Handed and Choice (I would recommend Fortify Carry Weight)
Shield: Fortify Block and Magic Resistance (really non-negotiable - magic resistance necessary to get to the cap, and with just one point in shield wall, your blocking damage reduction won't be "all that" even with 100 in block skill)
Ring: Fortify One-Handed, Fortify Archery
Amulet: Fortify One-Handed, Fortify Archery

 

What is your character type? (Obviously one that uses one-handed, shield, and bows, but what else does he do?)

Also have you purchased Dawnguard yet? Like I said in my review, it's not great DLC, but I think there were some sensible additions with dragonbone weapons, better dragons, heavy falmer warriors, and some new smithing options.

 

Dawnguard came out for PC last week. It's available on Steam for download. (In fact, I think it's ONLY available on Steam. I don't think you can go to a store and purchase it.)

IMO, the paralyze/fiery soul trap enchantment is the best combo for melee classes. And I further agree that using glass is the way to go (until you get the expansion). Once you get that, dragonbone weapons will give improved results. (Of course, it will also introduce you to the joy of legendary dragons. On adept difficulty they aren't too bad, but I'm assuming that at level 73 you are playing at master, and they are tough cookies on that difficulty - because they can two-shot you).

As for reaching high levels, it's really not like you have to max out nearly everything, but rather that you can't have anything excessively low. Improving a skill from 97-100 isn't going to do a lot, but improving a skill from 20-75 or so (even if done through training) certainly will.

Regarding switching rings, perhaps that's different on the PC. On the XBox, you can only quick switch weapons, not other equipment. So in order for me to change around my jewelry and amulet, I'd have to open my inventory every single time. Too much of a pain in the ass for me. I agree that all my +archery gear does nothing when I'm not using a bow (and vice versa with the one-handed/block enchantments), but I just can't be bothered to make a switch, especially considering I tend to switch back and forth quite regularly.

As for advice to level two handed, I found it quite easy to do so just by clearing out my quest log of "kill bandit leader at location X". They are weak enemies there, and so even though you're gimping your damage a bit, it doesn't really matter. The sword and shield melee guy was the first decent character I made in Skyrim, and I still find him to be the best in melee combat, simply because once you get deadly bash, your shield becomes a weapon. So you don't even give up much in terms of damage as compared to two-handed, AND you have the added defensive capabilities of using a shield.

As for developing magic, the only school I'll probably never develop again is destruction. The only time I ever did was when I made the level 81 character, and that was by far the most painful to level, even though I did most of it through training. It's just that it levels SOOOOO slow. And the damage isn't particularly good either. It's truly stunning that destruction is that bad, although there is some tactical use of trap spells as a stealth character. Still, in every fantasy RPG ever, destruction is the pinnacle of damage at high levels, and in Skyrim, it's simply not.

 

The easiest way to level heavy armor is go to a giant camp, kill all but one of the giants or mammoths, equip a healing spell in both hands, and let them beat on you. If you can't keep up with the healing, equip a shield in one hand and do it that way. (The latter method is less advisable if you've already maxed block, because you only get blocking OR heavy armor XPs on each hit. If you haven't maxed block, then it's a two-for-one deal.)

You level heavy armor by getting hit, and the harder you get hit, the faster you will level. So the idea is to find the biggest baddest thing that you can find that won't kill you and let them have at it. Technically, even a measely wolf or mudcrab would do the trick, but it would probably take you 10 minutes to gain a level. If a giant is hitting too hard (and if for some reason you don't have in excess of 400 health that may well be the case), find a frost troll. If you feel really spunky, the absolute fastest way to do it would be with a dragon, but that would really be living dangerously - quite inadvisable even.

Oh, and if you haven't maxed restoration it helps that too. Ideally you want something that is hitting you just hard enough that you can keep up with the damage taken with healing spells. A single point in novice restoration will double the efficacy of your basic healing spell.

 

Cripes! Why didn't I think of that? If you're level 73 you've long since passed the point of "being able to craft whatever you need for a particular situation". If the only thing you want to do is level heavy armor and restoration, then it makes total sense to craft gear that lets you cast restoration spells for free. Why spend a perk to half the casting cost of a basic healing spell when you can cast a better healing spell for no magicka? Just throw on some dragon plate. You can even throw on fortify heavy armor as the second enchantment as you likely will not be at the armor cap to make it a bit safer (and it will not slow down your leveling).

Hell, even if your restoration isn't that high, you should at least be able to purchase a fast healing book, equip that in both hands and spam it like crazy (or close wounds if your restoration is high enough). You may even want to let two giants/mammoths beat on you at once. You even have a "break glass in case of emergency" shield option of bashing a giant in the face allowing you time to back pedal if you're low on health. The only real decision here is what stone you want active. If you're trying to level both, Lover seems the way to go.

On a completely unrelated note, how much are you digging the Howard trade? Now we know what Kobe can try to accomplish in his last few years in the league... win titles. And how does Orlando give up the best player in the deal and not get the second best player in the deal back in return? And as a third question, doesn't it appear that this deal is worse (from Orlando's perspective) than what they got offered a couple of months ago from New Jersey?

 

One other note - Restoration is a slow leveling skill, while Heavy Armor is a relatively fast leveling skill. Not so fast as something like Block, but reasonably fast. So unless your restoration is really low as compared to heavy armor, you'll level heavy armor at a much faster rate. That's another reason to go for the lover stone. In fact, if you want to maximize the rate restoration levels, you may even consider the mage stone, as heavy armor will likely STILL level faster.

Truth be told the Lover Stone is almost ALWAYS your best option. +15% to all skills is nearly always the superior choice to +20% to one third of the skills, unless you are completely devoted to leveling up one particular set of skills. Like my current character is trying to raise smithing as fast as possible, so I have the warrior stone active, and I make sure I take a nap every time before I start to smith.

EDIT: I'm getting close with this character. Only a couple of more things remain. I need to find a fortify one handed enchantment. I'm level 41 and still haven't found one. I'll take a trip over to Solitude to the place that sells magic items next to Bits and Pieces and see if they can hook me up.

 

That's why I suggested that you might want to go with the mage stone.

I do not consider it particularly cheesy, simply because there are so few merchants that even have 1200 gold on hand to begin with. The only options you even have for such things are the fences for the thieves guild, and even then, they are tapped after 3-4 potions. And yet, because speech is a skill that is leveled through buying and selling stuff, you feel compelled to do it. Here is the method I have found to be most efficient: wait until I'm nearly at the next level, train 5 times (which gives me the next level), and then train 5 more times, so I can sell off somewhere around 20,00040,000 gold worth of stuff in one go (depending on what levels I'm training at).

Typically, I just stop crafting potions altogether, and just make a point of visiting merchants whenever I'm in a town and gradually selling stuff off. In my primary house I use a chest just for ingredients, drop off whatever I pick up there, and then when I need to make a potion, I take out my cheat sheet, look at what ingredients I need for a given potion, and then just grab whatever I have the most of out of the chest.

If you are trying to hit level 81, it may be very difficult if you didn't train the proper skills along the way. The general rule of thumb is to train skills that A) take a long time to do yourself B) you have no intention of using, and ideally both. Because of this, the top skill on the list is usually Destruction, as it levels slowly and it sucks. But Restoration is right up there. Even planning it out perfectly, the best you can realistically expect to train is 4 skills, assuming that the first several training sessions are done through Faendal, and you want to get speech to 50 as soon as you can.

So you sort of have to work backwards in the sense that you'll spend most of your training on stuff you aren't using. My level 81 character picked the following 4 as his training priorities: Two Handed (because I was using One Handed), Restoration, Destruction, and Alteration. I found enough uses for illusion and conjuration to do those on my own, with illusion being by far the easiest one to level, just by casting Muffle while in dungeons. My goal was to get everything to 90 through training, and then do the bards college and the Oghma quest to get them to 96.

The bottom line is if you hit the mid-70s in level, and you look and see that Restoration and Destruction are still at level 50, you're pretty much hosed, unless you want to cheese level (and every single mage skill can be cheese-leveled). The method for each is as follows, with all being done with four pieces of magicka reduction gear so that the spells cost nothing:

Illusion: Muffle. It works in town just as well as in a dungeon. By spam casting it for free you can probably go from level 15-100 in no more than 5 minutes.

Alteration: Waterbreathing. It works so long as you are standing in water that is about waist deep. So the cistern in the thieves guild doesn't work, but any reasonably deep body of water will do. Spam cast away, done in less than 5 minutes

Destruction: Any of the novice spells - Flames, Sparks, Frostbite, doesn't matter. Also requires Shadowmere. Shadomere regenerates health so fast that if you single cast any of these spells, he regenerates at a faster rate than you do damage. So you literally just stand there, holding the attack button down. Takes about a full minute of roasting to gain a level past 90.

Conjuration: Soul Trap. Works on dead bodies. Spam away. Or detect life why walking around the Riften or Whiterun marketplaces. Again, done in minutes.

Restoration: Is the hardest. Well, it's the hardest to get to level 90 if you have run out of training sessions. Once you do the Restoration Ritual Quest from Collette, you can buy Guardian Circle, which works on friendly NPCs. So you can just repeatedly drop a GC down in the Riften and Whiterun marketplaces.

Other than that, if you aren't at level 90 yet, you need to get a regular draugr (as the higher level draugr can be immune) in a corner somewhere. A well-placed Circle of Protection will cause him to flee to the corner, hit the wall, turn around, run back into the CoP, turn around and every single time he does it you get experience. However, you need level 75 to do this.

If you aren't at 75 yet, the only way I know of (and this is easily the cheeiest method of them all), is to buy the Alteration spell Equilibrium. That spell does the exact opposite of healing - it converts health into magicka. So you equip both Equilibrium and Healing, and cast. (Requires a point in novice restoration, or else you'll drain life faster than you gain it back.)

All cheesy. Do as you feel you must...

 

Can you confirm this? The most I can juice out of a shield is 29% - that's with maxed enchanting and maxed alchemy.

 

I didn't think of putting BOTH on it. I thought you meant the Shield of Solitude enchantment provided that by itself. OK - both with my enchantment levels would get me 52%.