Half-Orc vs. Shield Dwarf

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I've read a lot of strategies on IWDII and played through the game once, and I'm wondering essentially what's better for a full-tank character, half-orc or shield dwarf. As I see it it's the offensive power of half-orc vs. the racial saving throws and extra hit-points of the dwarf. What are the general opinions about this debate?

 

Shield Dwarf with a tower shield is the best meat shield in the game. Half-orcs work best not as front line tanks, but as barbarians with two handed weapons. Throw them into a rage and let them hammer opponents with two-handed weapons.

 

I'm thinking of a fighter/barbarian build, I guess the Half-Orc would be a better decision.... it's probably down to offensive vs. deffensive.

 

I agree with Ilmater's Suffering. Half-Orcs tend to be better suited to offensive roles, while dwarves tend to be better suited to, shall we say, less than fully offensive roles. Dwarves make great tanks, who have the ability to resist various magical and other attacks better than half-orcs.

 

IS and Crucis have this right. It's all in the role you are looking for. Your initial post said tank. A tank is generally considered a defensive minded meatshield. A character who can get a really high AC, good saves, and lots of HP, and act as a wall bnetween the enemy and the rest of your party. However, if you're looking at a Fig/Bbn build, then you've got a more offensive mindset here. More of a power hitter than a true "tank." In this case, I'd say that the Half-Orc is your better choice, as you can't go wrong with that bonus to Strength.

 

Shield Dwarf is TONS better.

You can boost your CON much higher with a SD than an Half-Orc.

COnsider this...would you want your character to be able to do 1 extra point of damage? Or have +2 to half your saving throws, extra HP and favored class Fighter?

 

I somewhat agree with Faraaz! For most cases the extra save and favored class fighter is better but the extra 30 HP at lvl 30 won't be much (for a Fighter4/barb26 it's 502 compared to 472). The extra strength may be a little better (can possibly give a maximum of +2 to damage with a 2-hander), but won't make a big difference. The extra saving throws is a good bonus, making the shield dwarf better.
The minus in int will make a difference if you plan on getting skills, but won't if you plan on minmaxing. Tanks don't need skills anyway.
The difference in favored class won't matter if you plan on building a barb/fighter but if you plan on including more classes (like fighter4/barbX/monk3) you might want to have the class that you have most levels in as favored class.

 

If you want a defensive tank than take a deep gnome.
The strength difference between DG and dwarf isn't bigger than between dwarf and half-orc, but you get +4 AC,mirror image and magic resistance.
Having a tank with ECL penalty is actually an advantage since it will allow your spellcasters to level up faster.

 

But a Half-Orc Barbarian/Battleguard of Tempest using great axes is so much fun.

 

My party is arcane-based, but I want a tank-like character that's able to deal good damage as well, not just be a meat shield. SD saving throws bonus is extremelly enticing since I'll be bombarding enemy groups with the tank probably in the middle, but buffing the a half-orc would still get me pretty close to the dwarf's ability (although never close enough). So is that strength bonus really count in the end? (otherwise I really don't see why anyone would use a half-orc).

 

Roleplaying. That's the reason I choose any character (but then, I'm not a powergamer). Well that and I hate ECL penalties.

The additional strength really only helps in the beginning. Later in the game the weapon bonuses are a much bigger influence. I chose characters to have a wide variety of weapons -- no two characters used the same weapon type.

High strength characters should use 2-handed weapons. But low strength characters using weapon finesse are equally deadly (rogue/ranger was an interesting combo for that).

You can use the bombardment trick on any tank with the proper protections. Once buffed properly, the saving throw bonus doesn't really matter.

Basically, decide which you would rather play based on your personality and roleplaying your party.

"This is a game damnit, it supposed to be fun."

 

Like T2Bruno said: The reason to use half-orcs is roleplaying! The differences between SD and halforcs as tanks is really small. You wouldn't notice the differences. That's when roleplaying come in! I consider myself to be a powergamer, but i often choose non-opimal races and make them as good as possible.
So choose the race you want. Both will make a good job as tanks. You could even try any other race and minimize int and cha and you would get a good tank.

 

Deep Gnome, for the same reasons kmonster gave.

 

Xindell, I'm not sure that I'd define a "tank" as a defensively minded melee meatshield. To me, "tank" is a fairly catch-all term for any melee warrior. To me, wildly offensive minded barbarians and more restrained fighters and paladins are all "tanks".

 

There are some monsters who have damage resistance.
Then the extra strength gets very useful.
It does make a big difference if 15 resistance is subtracted from 17 or 15 damage.

 

Yes, the ability to get past damage reduction is one of the main things you need your main fighter tank to be able to do in Icewind Dale 2.

 

Semantics crucis. Just semantics there. That's why my original post gave thoughts in both directions. I've always seen the term tank referred to more as the guy who can sit there and take a pounding. But to each their own. No sense in taking this conversation in a direction it wasn't really intended.
A couple posts have mentioned the DG, and it's true that they have a higher AC potential, because of their built in +4. This is true, but there are penalties to consider. Are you playing Normal, or HoF? In HoF, HP's and resistances are more important than AC, because it's tough to truly get an AC high enough to matter when even lowly Goblins are hitting at +26 (note I said tough, not impossible). Also, what does the rest of the party look like? That ECL penalty for DGs of 3 can hurt, unless you are playing an all ECL party, in which case that penalty is greatly minimized. That said, a DG CAN be a nasty tanker on a defensive basis.
The original request was to compare the SD and HO tho.

 

Taking game situations into play, I believe there are a couple of places that a dwarf gets some extra dialog options, while I have never seen that for the half orc, but then again I never gave my half orc a chance to speak to anyone.

 

Please...

Tank is the meatshield. His job is to keep aggro up (attract enemies to himself) and live. Both through enemies pounding and possible ally fire. His damage output is simply irrelevant.
Look at it this way. You're using arcane based party. Meaning, once your tank falls, you're fried. Dead fried. That's why you want the tank to never fall. If you play it right, tank is the weakest link, so make it as useful as possible - Deep Gnome. But dont go for just HP. Max constitution, sure. Otherwise, go for AC and spells.


@Xindell
HPs do jack for a tank in HoF. Think about it... Both attack and damage of enemies is really high. A tank needs to live through it, so he'll either negate the attack or damage. There really arent many options to get lots of Damage Reduction, while there are plenty for AC. It's kinda common sense to go for AC then.

 

The differences between the HO and the SD in practice are negligible. Play whichever rubs your role playing gene the right way. The DG offers some considerable advantages and could be considered a viable substitute for either.