Help choosing class combos and feats

Remove all ads!

So I felt like giving this game a go again, and I have to admit when it comes to DnD I like some powergaming, but I still have some RP requirements.

Going for a group of 4 so I can do more fun multiclassing.
Basically what I'm going to want is(under are my RP preferences) -

1. A tanking focused druid
-Wood Elf. Prefer true neutral or NG, although LG is tempting for monk level(s)...

2. A rogue with some support spells and a bit of extra fighting capability
-Halfling, Svirfneblin, or Human(maybe tiefling). True Neutral

3. A cleric with some other fun stuff mixed in.
-Human, Aasimar maybe, or Half Elf. Chaotic Good

4. A fighter/magey type. Although I prefer sorcerer to mage.
- Drow, Moon Elf, Half Elf, or Tiefling. Chaotic Good or maybe TN.


And I'm thinking maybe-

1. Barbarian 2, Fighter 2, rest Druid?
2. Fighter 2, Sorcerer to get level 2 or 3 spells(maybe even 4), and the rest rogue)
3. Paladin 1(Ilmater?), Fighter 2, Monk 1, the rest Cleric(Ilmater)
4. Fighter 2(or more than 2?), a bit of cleric for a few buffs(Bad idea?), rest Sorcerer

But I'm not sure at all. I'm kind of lost for feats too. Which spell schools are best(if any) to focus in? Is a point in dash is worth it for everyone to do hit and run tactics? Is it better having caster/fighter combos spend feats on fighting, spells, or both? Also not sure how much multiclassing a character can get away with and still have strong enough casting ability.

Oh, BTW, are there any must have mods now? I have only the official patch and G3 tweaks.

 

Your party seems well focused for Normal mode. Just keep in mind the 20% XP penalty for classes with more than 1 level apart, unless they're Favored classes. 20% doesn't seem like much, but its annoyingly huge.
As for your characters-:
1. He's good. If you want to focus more on tanking, raise the Barbarian and Fighter levels (at least 4 for Fighter), and rest Druid. It'll cut back his spellcasting, but very nicely raise his attack bonuses and hit points. I'd recommend specializing in 2 hand weapons with a build like this (Halberds, Greatswords, Greataxes all good), to take good advantage of 1.5*STR bonus damage for 2 hand weapons. Otherwise, since you can use any weapon, one arm would also be good. Take all combat related feats like Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Critical, Dirty Fighting, and Rapid Shot for ranged combat. You could also take Spell Focus Necromancy (Druid has Finger of Death), and Spell Focus Evocation (Whirlwind). Spell Focus Transmutation is possible, but I don't think Tremor is that good. Combat casting isn't necessary if you're taking Concentration skill with high CON on this guy.

2. Be careful to avoid multiclassing penalties here. And generally speaking, mages go better with Rogues, since both classes are highly dependent on INT, but its your choice. Either way, this guy can be a fantastic archer, so take advantage of Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, etc. I bet you can even take Expertise with this one. Taking so many levels in Rogue is completely unnecessary, but also completely upto you. It would give you a frightening sneak attack though, so take Weapon Finesse and nab the best short sword you find.

3. Can be an excellent supportive character, and an even better tanker than your #1. Use all your points in boosting WIS, and WIS boosting equipment. Forego the armor, and stick to 2-hand weapons. His armor class can be fairly huge this way, with more buffs from a mage/sorcerer. And, Clerics of Ilmater have some pretty painful (for the enemy) domain spells. Use the high WIS to your advantage and pummel the enemy with Horrid Wilting, Harm, Symbol of Pain, etc. Spell focus feats are not necessary, but if you prefer blasting to bashing, take them in Necromancy and Enchantment.

4. I'd prefer pure Sorcerers any day, but a few levels of Fighter doesn't hurt I guess. Cleric levels aren't really needed, but your call. Give this guy Spell Focus in Evocation, Enchantment, Necromancy. Then Spirit of Flame, Aegis of Rime, Scion of Storms, etc. Combat Casting is a MUST. Don't even bother with melee combat, keep using spells till you're dry.

All the best.

 

So maybe -

1. Wood Elf Barbarian 3 Fighter 4 Druid X
Am I getting an XP penalty here? Maybe use a half-elf?

2. Halfling Fighter 4, Mage 4 or 5, Cleric 4-5(Demarch?), Rogue X
Trading some rogue levels for cleric for more utility/versatility, good idea? Or should I take more fighter-ish levels instead? I'll be careful with the exp. penalty here, and go-
Rogue 2
Rogue 2/Fighter 2
Rogue 2/Fighter 2/Mage 2
etc.

3. Half Elf or Human Paladin 1(Ilmater), Fighter 2, Monk 1, Cleric X(Ilmater)
Aasimar can't do this w/out a penalty can they?

4. Tiefling Rogue (1-3) Sorcerer X
A few rogue levels to turn this one into my diplomat.

 

POWERGAMING advice

OK, if you want powergaming advice here I go, I can't help myself :
You should consider the battlecleric build as your frontliner (more later), but a monk1/druidX is an awesome combo.
1) Cernd type beats Jaheira-type in IWD2 hands down. Monk 1 / druid X build is unmatched at high level. You should have the following mods installed: Ease-of-use components Additional Druid Spellls, and Alternate Druid Shapeshifting. MindChild's customdll fix so your Monk1/druidX can wear robes and still get the wisdom bonus to armour class. Also the Light of Selune mod (NOT the component Upgraded Classes, it really sucks, although you can get Tremor at level 8 if you temporarily install Upgraded Classes late in the game and uninstall it again). Your druid is most powerful when he/she gets the Half-Dragon transformations at high level. The final one does massive damage in all 4 elements. No fighter/druid can match its combat potential, why? The powerful shapeshift form has a SET Strength, Dexterity and Constitution. Any advancement you took in human form won't carry over to the shapeshift form, but high Wisdom gives the monk's armour class bonus to the half-dragon. So my advice: No warrior levels besides 1 Monk and perhaps a ranger level for dual wielding in human form (getting the bonuses from 2 weapons can be more handy than the extra damage a 2-handed weapon gives). This build can be a powerful spellcaster, AND shapeshift into a powerful monster at high level. This is good, because unlike the cleric, the druid has many attack spells which benefit from a high level caster with high wisdom. Also, take mostly spellcasting feats (GSF Transmutation because Tremor IS good - it breaks through Spell Resistance and affects even the most powerful enemies! Forget GSF Necromancy, because Finger of Death is the only good necromantic druid spell, leave necromancy to sorcerers and wizards. GSF Evocation combined with Spirit of Flame and Scion of Storms, you get powerful elemental damage spells). Warrior feats you can take are Improved Critical, Power Attack and Cleave (not Greater Cleave), as these give bonuses to the shapeshift forms, don't waste feats on weapon proficiencies. Be warned though, that this one will only become a good fromtliner at higher levels (the monsters have a HUGE set STR/DEX/CON), so perhaps it's best to switch him with nr. 3 at the start and move him forward later. I had a human LN Monk o/t Old Order / Druid X, 18-16-18-3-18-3. It's important you focus on Wisdom on leveling up with this build, to maximize it's powergaming potential.

2) If you take a look at the forum and study the game rules, you'll realize that you don't need many rogue levels to get by. Also, as Ajax already mentioned, the rogue is best mixed in with your wizard (because of the Intelligence and skill points synergies) to get an awesome powergaming build. I took NE Deep Gnome 12-20-18-18-5-1 start as rogue, Rogue 2 / Ranger 1 / Illusionist X.

Spoiler

A level sorcerer will remove spell school restrictions for your Illusionist, but this is an exploit that may break the spirit of the game for you

You can take a human instead, or a male drow. If you're not into the ranger level, tiefling is an option. But I dislike tieflings, since their main advantage is the weak elemental resistances they get, but that's not so useful for a character with high reflex saving throw and Evasion (level 2 rogue gets Evasion free, meaning she takes NO damage from spells which allow a reflex save for half damage). Also, but not relevant, tieflings take over from gnomes in 4e D&D, so gnomes get moved to the monster manual. So actually, I HATE tieflings. Back to the issue: A fighter 4 / rogue X will give you access to powerful rogue feats later on, but rogues are poor fighters, it says so in the class description, and you should take this seriously. Nalia-type thief/mage beats Coran-type fighter/thief in powergaming.

3) Cleric's are better off on the frontlines, they're more powerful than warriors in this regard. I hope you'll consider my idea of the battlecleric. Consider this: Why have really high wisdom for a cleric? What are the best cleric spells: Summons benefit from high level cleric, but Wisdom is irrelevant. Healing, Protections, Attack bonuses, all the same story. There are few damage spells for a cleric, and there are always better spells to take on that level. Your cleric can boost his combat skills to outcompete any warrior type in the game (the half-dragon may be better), and for this reason I'd suggest you concentrate on improving his/her Constitution (recommended, hit points are valuable) or Strength (easier to boost). My 6 member party had 2 battleclerics on the frontlines:
CN female drow Bard 5 / Battleguard of Tempus X, 18-15-16-5-15-11. Bard song Tymora's Melody is awesome: continuous luck for the whole party, plus other bonuses.
NG female drow fighter 4 / Morninglord of Lathander X, 18-18-16-5-18-5. I took dual wielding feats, and longsword and hammer proficiencies. Improved Critical, Power Attack, Cleave, Maximized Attacks, all useful feats. Lathander clerics gets some fire evocation spells to boot, so I got GSF Evocation and Spirit of Flame feats. But that last part was as an aside, as I repeat: Clerics are poor offensive spellcasters.

Spoiler

There are many wisdom boosting items in the game, so it's easy to get the 19 or 20 WIS you need.

The only real bonus high wisdom gives your clerics, is a few bonus spells. But if you're short on spells, let your druid pitch in, or like me, take another cleric along.
Female Drow are the best frontline battleclerics despite the -2CON they start with, because they have spell resistance, so can be blasted by friend and foe with reduced risk of taking damage. It's hard to roleplay a Good Drow Morninglord, but don't take an evil cleric: you lose the ability to shift-click spells into a corresponding Cure ____ Wounds spell (not Heal).

4) You can't leave home without a sorcerer it may be tempting to make a LE Wild Elf and call him Irenicus, but I suggest you don't disregard the possibility of a LG Paladin 1 / Sorcerer X, preferably human, but Aasimar has it's benefits too. it's THE classic powergaming build, in short, paladin's get bonus saving throws from the CHA modifier. At the price of one level you have a character which makes it's saving throws most of the time. I personally had a human with a level ranger, as dual wielding gives him some melee versatility, but that's your call. Human is the best build, because you can make INT a dump stat (lower to 3) and still get 2 skillpoints per level. Enough for concentration, 10 spellcraft for elemental feats, and the extra skillpoints can go to diplomacy later on. Are fighter and cleric levels useful to boost your sorcerer? No, although 1 level fighter gives you a free feat, more levels just distracts from advancing your sorcerer. A cleric gets certain bonuses like feats or resistances, even a +1 DC to enchantment (Bane). None of these are worth it if you ask me, since Bane clerics require you to take a diiferent alignment than LG, and you can't take paladin anymore. My advice: LG Human paladin Mystra 1 / ranger 1 / Sorcerer X, 16-18-18-3-3-18. If you install MindChild's customdll fix you can take Paladin of Mystra and are free to advance in Sorcerer, without being excommunicated from the order. Then you're free to take a second level much later, if you think the bonuses are worth it then. Take only spellcasting feats and perhaps Luck of Heroes for humans.

I hope this was of some help to you.

 

I won't be powergaming that much, but there was some stuff in there that helps. I'm probably not going to be doing HoF though, and it sounds like you think I was planning to.

I won't be doing the paladin 1/sorc X or monk 1/druid for RP reasons, I just can't do it! My sorc and druid are both going to be chaotic or neutral alignments. But my cleric is free to be a big ball of cheese.


What are the benefits you can get by mixing in some bard levels other than Tymora's Melody? It seems like a lot of levels to take for just a certain bard song.

Is the dual wield deal really worth taking a level of ranger for a rogue? Wouldn't a few fighter levels be better?

Why are higher rogue levels so bad? Does the lower BAB and HD than fighters become kind of crippling? Do they get traps at all? I've always liked using traps since BG2, although they were a bit overpowered in that game.
Should I just use another character with a few rogue levels for the typical rogue duties?

 

Well, I had only 11CHA, with a boosting item I'm still able to cast level 2 spells, the best a L5 bard can do. Tymora's Melody was recommended in one of the Ultimate Powergaming Party Guides I read at:http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/IWD2/index_tips.php
It's best explained there. Luck is a very powerful and influential bonus, as it boosts the DICE ROLLS themselves. You strike a hit more often and roll more damage, your spells have higher DC and hurt more/work better. If you wear a luck enhancing item on a character and cast Bull's Strength for example, the 1d4+1 STR bonus will get better results. The spell Luck is limited to 10 rounds for 1 person, and there are few items in the game which influence luck. But the Tymora's Melody song can be cast unlimited, it gives luck and more bonuses to the entire party.
Luck on a d20 dice: 1 stays 1, 2 becomes 3, 3 -> 4, 4->5 etc. 19-> 20, but doesn't become a critical hit though. this song outmatches any of the other songs, even those that come later.
Believe me, I'm a powergamer and you don't need to tell me that a 5 level mix-in is painful, but the Luck song is that important!

Ranger is ideal to combine with an arcane spellcaster, as are 2 rogue levels (start character as rogue for bonus skillpts.).
The ranger level as a mix-in is the most useful single level you can choose. A full ranger is the most unappealing character, but just a single level allows you to use two weapons as if you had the feats Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting, on the condition that you wear light or no armour. The condition of wearing light or no armour isn't an issue for arcane spellcasters, who wear robes to avoid the risk of casting failure due to armour. Wizards, Sorcerers and Bards also risk casting failure if they use a shield, that's why using a 2nd weapon is ideal. Traditionally an arcane caster has the quarterstaff as his weapon of choice, but a level ranger gives them a wide variety of other options. Just think of it, the ranger level offers useful combat feats (Ambidexterity, Two-Weapon Fighting, and any weapon proficiencies you didn't have yet) to a spellcaster, who can't choose those feats because he/she needs all their feats to improve their spellcasting.

I don't speak from experience here, as I rarely used traps (unless you're talking about Skull Traps, I love those, but I use them as precision fireballs), and if you're going for a fighter/rogue you shouldn't take a level ranger, it's only useful for spellcasters, who can't wear armour/shields. But you should be sure about this, as the rogue is a difficult character to keep alive, and isn't even a spellcaster. I always hated how Yoshimo got himself to near death at the beginning of the battle, you're likely to experience this with a rogue too.

yes, wizards take on rogue duties best. most people will agree with me on this, it's the best combination.

 

Is it really important for spell casters to dual wield?

Wouldn't they be better off just using ranged weapons instead of sacrificing a level for dual wielding?
It seems like you'd be better of with another level in rogue or wizard, or 1 level of fighter.

I guess maybe with the right buffs you could turn them into a bigger threat in melee though.

Maybe I can kill two birds with one stone here though...

How would a Fighter 4/Bard 5/Rogue X do?
It's a jack of all trades, but you get tymora's, a higher BAB than a standard rogue, some good defensive spells, and I save myself the trouble of so many mix in levels for my cleric.

 

These are three questions:
1) Is dual wielding any good? You get the bonuses from both weapons when equipped, although this doesn't require you to fight well with them. Your spellcaster could switch to a melee weapon when fighting, and dual wield when spellcasting. But this is a lot of hassle/mouse clicking. The bonuses from equipping 2 weapons are best, and I like my spellcasters to also fight decently with them. But this is my personal opinion.
2) aren't ranged weapons better? If you ever plan to go to HoF mode with your party, my experience is that ranged weapons don't do enough damage: (cross)bows and slings don't get strength damage bonus, and barely get past damage resistance.

Spoiler

Also, powerful enemies are immune to the unenchanted returning arrows, so using enchanted quiver is also expensive.

Returning thrown weapons do a bit more damage, but don't benefit from powerful launchers like bows, so have a relatively lower attack bonus, meaning they miss more often. and mostly they must be thrown from closer range.
In my opinion ranged weapons are unreliable, especially in Heart of Fury mode. I was recently in a discussion over the merits of the Rapid Shot feat. Although Rapid Shot does benefit your attacks, I'm still of the opinion that ranged attacks are unreliable. My party can still range-attack well without Rapid Shot, but I do this only in reduced-threat situation. Like when I'm mopping up or want to save spells.
3) Isn't another level rogue or wizard better? I explained why I think a level ranger is good. If you think leveling quickly is more important, do that. You can always take a level ranger late in the ame if you change your mind.

You've got the right idea here, actually. I never thought of this one. So often my frontline battlecleric ends up spellcasting or fighting, and I miss out on Tymora's Melody. This one is of little use in combat, barely casts spells, but now it can sing when it's useless. I'd be curious to know how you fare with this character.

 

I guess the ranger level is kind of a toss up then. Personally, I don't use my casters for melee much unless I've built them for it or they are using a particular spell that makes them more effective in melee.
This is a different game than BG2 or IWD 1 though, so I may find myself changing mind. You make a good point that you can take it later, I might end up doing so.

So I've strayed a bit from my original requirements, and changed my party plan in the working to -

Human, Half Elf(Even though I am aware they suck), or Drow Female
Paladin(Ilmater)1/Monk(Ilmater)1/ Fighter2/ Cleric(Ilmater)X
Weapon - Great Sword
- Tank, buffer, healer

Maybe throw a level of ranger in and dual wield maces?

Wild Elf or Half-Elf
Barbarian 3/Fighter4/Druid X
Weapon - Spear
- Secondary tank

How bad is the exp penalty if I take wild elf?

Tiefling or Human or Halfling(not ghostwise)
Fighter4/ Bard5 /RogueX
Weapon - Short Bow
- Utility, archer
(A rogue with some support spells and a bit of extra fighting capability!)

Maybe some(4-5?) dreadmaster levels and make them a speaker? Might be too much multi classing...

Ghostwise Halfling
Barbarian1/ Sorcerer X
- Spell slinger, backup archer
Weapon - Throwing Daggers

Barbarian level for speed + higher HP + better weapon selection.
Speaker if the fighter/bard/rogue isn't. Was thinking about tiefling, but the -2 to charisma is stupid and probably too crippling for a sorc(is it?). Aasimar don't have any negatives!

 

My opinion on the ranger level is quite my own, not the general consensus. But you will experience moments when a goblin strays the way of your spellcasters, and you'll like it if your spellcasters can actually finish him off themselves. Battles in IWD2 can get pretty scrappy, and at certain points you'll want your casters to be able to melee normally. But I'm an advocate of versatility powergaming.

People don't talk often about the benefits/bonuses from equipping 2 single handed weapons. For spellcasters it's not all about melee: Equipping an item can give a spell effect when equipped, or a deflection bonus, and you may want to put it in the off-hand for this. Sometimes the bonuses from two weapons become even stronger in tandem.

I'm a bit confused about the monk level. Is this going to be a battlecleric? If so, then the monk level loses its usefulness. You're better off wearing armour, and the AC bonus stays low, since you won't be advancing WIS far beyond 20. 4 levels fighter allows you to take 3 slots in any weapon, so you have 3 choices:
1) 1lvl Paladin & 1lvl Fighter for the extra feat.
2) 4lvls Fighter, drop the paladin and monk levels.
3) 3lvls Paladin, 4lvls Fighter, drop the monk.

I wouldn't take ranger level with this one, as she'll be wearing heavy armour, and then can't dual wield.

The more your druid class is apart from the other classes, the worse. At high levels it can get as bad as 80%
If you insist on having a wild elf druid for roleplaying, it must be single or 'multi' class.
If you take human you can make INT3 and still get 2 skillpoints per level (need concentration and 10 spellcraft). You'll get better STR/DEX/CON that way. Too bad you won't consider a monk level: I didn't think it was too hard to roleplay. Just think of a story of a girl being sent to a secluded nunnery in the woods by her parents, and choosing the druid ways, resulting in her excommunication from the order. Even a ranger level can be explained.

I'm biased against tiefling: I think their bonuses aren't useful for rogues, and don't like them as a race. They remind me too much off a watered-down Drow.
Since singing is this char's best ability, don't forget to take the Lingering Song feat. Choose bard spells that don't need spell DC, and don't improve in effect or duration at higher level. Luck and Vocalize cast just as well when cast by a lvl5 bard or by a lvl20 sorcerer.
It's just a suggestion, this would be to suit my play style, where I'd use this guy for singing much more than ranged attack: Why not drop the 4 fighter levels alltogether? It limits your combat abilities, but this char didn't have much to begin with. On the other hand, you can take more bard levels, and be a better spellcaster. So besides singing, this char can cast a neat bard spell in the middle of battle, then continue singing. With Lingering Song, the party won't lose song effects for a moment. If you're worried about not having enough attackers in the party, just summon. Just a suggestion.

The Bane cleric levels give him +1 in conversation skills, but you'd need to take 4 lvl cleric to avoid XP penalty - definitely not worth it.

Yeah tiefling is no good for this.
You really like the idea of extra speed from barbarian levels: meep-meep! The roadrunner sorcerer isn't a powergaming build. Wear boots of speed if you're worried about your sorcerer. A paladin or ranger level does wonders for a sorcerer though.

 

Editted. Covered in next post. Stupid browser going nuts.

 

Are you sure about that?
I've never done a critical miss on a saving throw with the song on, and often do critical misses without it. It seems like it makes critical misses impossible and if that's the case (and it seems like it's so with my last two parties) it's extremely useful for decoys with high reflex saving throws that get bombarded a lot.
I also seem to hit more critical hits, but I'm not sure about the last.

Probably have to try a bit more to verify this. Spells at least cant hit 1 on damage dealt with luck on.

 

responding to discussion in 2 threads

I'm not sure, but it's what I've read. Also, when wearing luck bonus items and casting Bull's Strength, sometimes I still get unlucky and get 2 from the 1d4+1 bonus.

Maybe it's true, because all equipped weapons are locked in place until the spell wears off.

I'm responding to Mudde, diverting the off-topic discussion from another thread.

What can I say? I thought I made a convincing argument why high WIS is of limited use. For a battlecleric, I'd say improving CON or STR is of much greater benefit. 26 wis as opposed to 20 WIS doesn't get you more than an extra spell per level

That's a very good point. Start by taking 1 level fighter for the proficiencies, and take the other 3 levels later, when leveling cleric is less crucial. Makes perfect sense.

Drow don't really have BAD cleric stats: You can't drop INT and CHA below 5 as opposed to 3 normally, but drow get 4 extra point anyway.
I wouldn't even consider Deep Gnomes as clerics.
Dwarves are very good clerics. Humans have the bonus of 2 skillpts./lvl, but in my opinion this too isn't crucial: Battleclerics shouldn't be casting spells in the midst of combat, except for Heal which casts instantly. Sub-optimal concentration is an acceptable loss for a dedicated battlecleric.

 

@coineineagh
No offense, but true powergaming usually disregards most armors in favor of spell-buffing, high WIS classes, and Chain of Drakkas' (Fury or normal).

@Odd Hermit
Your second version is good. For the first character, pour in the WIS. He can hit AC 60+ quite easily with all buffs, proper generic armor bonus equipment, and stuff. Greatswords are also a good choice in weapons. I suppose I don't need to tell you to take Weapon Specialization. In fact, since you'll be taking Concentration skill anyway, try for Maximize Attacks. Its pretty cool.
Character 2 is a good initial tank, but I doubt it can confidently walk around in HoF mode. Spears are actually not as good as Halberds, but both come under Polearms, so its ok. I'd advise you in earnest to buy Twelve Paces in HoF as soon as possible. That range is beneficial for a low AC character. Personally, I'd recommend Big Black Flying Death for this guy.
Char 3 can be good. You're hell bent on getting a pure Rogue, so you may as well use him properly by cranking up the DEX as high as it goes, buffing up good and proper with Chain of Drakkas, and Specializing in Small Blade with Weapon Finesse. As I had said earlier, you can have some seriously frightening Sneak Attacks, and a considerably AC to boot. Bows are good, but I prefer melee.
Char 4... ditch the Barbarian level and use Drow. You don't need a Barbarian level at all, since 1 level won't make much of a difference on his survivability or attack power. Better to use the Drow's bonuses to make a high power Sorcerer. And make him the diplomat. The naturally high CHA and abundant skill points can be good here. If you're so worried about combat, take Aasimar with a Paladin level.

And as a note about dual wielding, if you dual-equip a caster with say... Golden Heart of <char name> and some other bonus giving weapon, and cast something like Mordenkainen's Sword, then the caster will fight with Mord's Sword while KEEPING the bonuses of the two weapons he's actually equipped. Just something to chew on.

 

None taken. I try to make the distinction between true, ultimate powergaming (where they go for highest possible spell DC, 72+AC characters with weird class combos, that awful new class taken at level 30 which gives big XP penalty, etc.), and versatile powergaming. I try to add practicality into the equation, like making my sorcerer less of a pushover, combat tactics that work even in scrappy fights, leaving cleric WIS at 20 in favor of combat stats. I go with what works best practically, not just theoretically. It's still definitely powergaming though.

BTW, did you know the Chain of Drakkas is coded as a robe? Even a monk can wear it without losing the AC bonus from wisdom. With custom dll that is

 

I would say that that also depends on how often you decide to rest. I like playing for a long time between the resting in normal mode. Otherwise it get's too easy and somewhat booring. It's quite funny to end up in a difficult fight with only a few strange spells left to cast that you chose to fill up the spell-slots. It gives a different challenge. That extra spell per lvl really makes a difference by then.
If you rest after every fight, the extra spells aren't that important.

Deep gnomes are quite powerful as pure clerics, especially in small parties where they level up the three missing lvls fast.
In really small parties, an XP penalty can be acceptable, and then a DG clericX/monk1 with the rogue lvl taken as last lvl (at lvl 30 to be able to use one item) can reach high enough AC with the help of some buffs and also a really high spell DC for offensive spells.

 

Okay so, I see your point about the barbarian level. I kind of just wanted him to be multi-classed to fit in haha. And I do like the speed, at first I was considering dash+ a barb level for every character heh. I played a druid in WoW, it kind of stuck with me...

But pure sorcerer was my favorite class next to bounty hunters in BG2 so I guess should just go for a pure spell slinger. Plus I had a character in mind that is a drow sorcerer, and I'll get to use the cool drow caster portrait for him!

As for the monk level, I planned to buff up wisdom. It seems to me you'd get a higher maximum armor class with spells and a good wisdom and dex bonus than you would with armor. Also, I just like the funky multi-classing. This character would have Wisdom, Dex, and Charisma for high AC and saves.
I am assuming clerics have plenty of good spells to buff their strength up. I could be wrong though.

I do like rogues. I can't help it, I loved thieves in BG2. I might find out the hard way they suck in IWD2 though.

A few more questions -
Hamstring - Good or bad?

Bard spells - Do they cap at level 6 like in BG2?
IIRC they don't in 3E. If so, I could see bard buffs being better than those fighter levels. So for now I'll ditch those 4 levels of fighter and go with a Bard/Rogue.

Are you sure the sorc would make a better speaker than the bard/rogue?
It seems like the bard/rogue would be better with higher skills, even if they have less charisma.


Human
Paladin(Ilmater)1/Monk(Ilmater)1/ Fighter2/ Cleric(Ilmater)X
Weapon - Great Sword
- Tank, buffer, healer

Wild Elf (Yes, I just must have the wild elf. No nunnery stuff.)
BarbarianX/Druid X
Weapon - Spear
- Secondary tank

Even multi-class = too crazy here? High level barbs get DR right? Is it worth it?

Moon Elf
BardX/RogueX
Weapon - Short Bow
- Utility, archer, speaker?

Drow
Sorcerer X (Single class seems so boring in 3E, but w/e)
- Spell slinger, backup archer
Weapon - Spells!

 

I hate resting too, rearranging spell picks and buffing up are time-consuming.
My 6 member party has 2 battleclerics, which gives much more spells than a single cleric with maxed WIS.
Your 4 member party levels up faster, but that's an issue about the moncrate.2da file. Technically it's cheating to alter this, but I did it because I didn't want to be restricted to 4 characters, neither did I want to squat, mule, or use other weird tactics, just to squeexe a bit of XP out of the game.

But that would be very late in the game, and ruins the character, giving it 80% XP penalty probably. Female Drow are much more practical in this respect. Less AC, less WIS, but also better ECL and the right favoured class.

 

@Odd Hermit
Hamstring - its a near pure Rogue, may as well use it.

Bard/Rogue IS a better speaker, assuming you have the CHA and the skill points to spare.

Barb/Druid even SUCKS. DR given to Barbarians is so epically pathetic I can't describe it. You want DR, use the Druid's Stone for Stoneskin.

I'm fairly sure Bard spells cap at lvl 6 (but Bards get Great Shout at spell lvl 6 /drool). Do NOT remove Fighter levels, I think you'll need those BABs and hit points. Rogue/Bard = sucky combatant. The Fighter levels would be very useful.

 

No experience in using it.

Good plan. You have a dilemma here now: If you take 10 rogue levels, you get access to the powerful rogue feats (again, no experience in using them). The downside is that it'll take ages before you reach level 8 bard spells (level 17 I think), so you'll have to wait for Mass Dominate and Wail of the Banshee. If you're set on having a significant rogue, take the former path, then you can actually take the feats you have access to.

No need for a 2nd fighter level, as you get the bonus feats at level 1 and 3.

Another point of disagreement. Of course it matters what way you're taking damage. Against powerful enemies that hit hard, it means little, and unless you take a (near) full class barbarian, you'll get very little DR. Damage resistance at high level is like a weak but endless Iron Skins spell.
Make the Wild Elf your sorcerer or else "You will suffah, you will ALL suffah!"

Bard spells go up to level 8, but selection and spell slots is more limited than a sorcerer's.
My idea was to divert attention from this guys combat skills by losing the 4 fighter levels (I mean, his combat deteriorates from "Kinda Poor" to "Poor" with no fighter levels), so that the character could be a dedicated scout, backstabber, singer of Tymora's, and spellcaster.