HoF: What's it take to make a decent melee character?

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I've read online about deep gnome decoys, and although they have their merits, the idea seems a bit boring to me (at least make them do more!).

What kinds of characters make viable, decent melee characters in HoF mode?

 

Anyone that has decent AC (70+ preferably, high 60's still doable), decent STR and profiency in a weapon of your choice is all you need. Plus enough buffs to cover at least half of your character portraits.

Or any summoned creature.

 

I suppose that it depends on your definition of "decent". If you think that "decent" equates to nearly unhittable, then you'll need an outrageously high AC. OTOH, one of the biggest things that makes HOF monsters so tough for tanks to deal with is their numbers. There are simply more enemy monsters in HOF to deal with.

If you have a fairly traditional party with a couple of dedicated tanks, your tanks can be easily overwhelmed by the wave of enemy monsters in melee. At a bare minimum, one way to even the odds is to summon a couple of monsters to try to make the odds for your tanks closer to 1-to-1, rather than more like 2-1 or 3-1. My experience was that when then odds were much closer to 1-1, your own tanks could feel much more effective.

Of course, buffs and the best items also help a lot. And casting plenty of supporting spells helps too. Things like web or greater command or symbol of hopelessness.

So, yes, enemy monsters are tough in HOF, but so are your tanks. What places your tanks at the most serious disadvantage is the nearly overwhelming numbers of enemy monsters. When you can use magic to even the odds, you begin to find that your tanks are not as ineffective as you may believe.

 

So, I'll admit that I've never really tried HoF. I fiddled around with it only once (with a low level party - just to see what it was like), and didn't really care for it. On the "too easy - fun - too difficult" scale, it seemed to rank at "utterly ridiculous".

But crucis, you mention that:

Forgive my ignorance, but are PCs given advantages in HoF, other than improved summons and some improved equipment?

 

What you have to remember Acrux is at the beginning of normal mode, a goblin can kill one of your characters with a few hits, because your HP is so low. At the beginning of HoF, a goblin can kill one of your characters with a few hits, because:
1) You don't have 1,000,000 HP
2) They hit harder.

So what is the difference between a level 1 character dying in a few hits, and a Hof character dying in a few hits? Well:
1) There are more enemies
2) Those Potions of Healing do little to aid you
3) Enemies get harder quicker than bonuses with your characters' level-ups - which inevitably leads to a dependance on several spell buffs, instead of 2 or 3.

So I wouldn't rate HoF as "utterly ridiculous" - just tougher than a barbecued diamond...

I generally manage HoF with 2 tanks - 1 high AC decoy and 1 high damage tank. With the right tactics (although repetitive) you can win most battles with little damage to the low-AC, high-damage tank. Or rather, enough HP to survive until another day...

 

Acrux, assuming that you have imported a party that has already completed normal mode, you're probably starting with a group of characters that are all around level 16-17. So, in a sense, that is the advantage that your characters start with.

OTOH, if you start HOF with level 1 newbies, you're in really deep trouble.


And "some" improved equipment? I'd say that if you've gone all the way thru normal mode, you have a bucketload of good equipment, particularly if you've properly managed your inventory, prior to exporting your characters near the end of NM.

Utterly ridiculous as in way, way too difficult? The first time I played HOF, it didn't float my boat. But the second time, I really gave it a chance and found that it was actually rather interesting, particularly if you enjoy tough combat situations. And, frankly, if you are an experienced IE D&D player, ridiculously tough battles ought to be an exciting challenge.

I have to say that every time I've played the HOF version of the battle in Guthma's fortress (when you first break out of the goblin warrens), I am greatly challenged. I'm a very experienced IE BG/IWD player and that battle always seems to challenge me, particularly since I always try to clear this area without a rest or running back into the goblin warrens.

I should also note that I wasn't doing HOF with some sort of highly HOF specialized powergaming UPP. I've been doing it with very traditional parties with a pair of tanks, a cleric, a sorc, a rogue (MC or pure), and a utility character (sometimes a ranger, sometimes a backup mage).

I think that the first time I fought Guthma's fortess in HOF, it took me something like a dozen tries to win. Was I frustrated? You betcha. And I also greatly enjoyed the immense challenge. Oh, I suppose that I could have fought a few baddies and ran back to the warrens to rest, but that felt entirely wrong from a RPG viewpoint.

I mean, in a more "realistic" environment, why wouldn't the baddies just chase me down into the warrens? No, I wanted to clear Guthma's fortress without resting or running away. It is entirely doable with good tactics and some management of your resources. But it will challenge your battle skills to the utmost. And that is very fun.

 

HoF mode completely breaks immersion and realism because I have to cast like...3 Delayed Blast Fireballs just to kill a Goblin?? Ooookay...I'd much rather swing with a stick for like half an hour to kill a Goblin.

Wail of the Banshee?? Its okay for Slayer Knights of Xvim but pretty wimpy if you have to pull it out everytime you see a critter...

 

Faraaz, HOF is just plainly a different animal than normal mode. You can't use all of the same tactics that work so well in normal mode. You have to adjust your tactics to deal with the fact that the monsters have uber-high HP totals and very high Fort saves. In HOF, spells with Will saves rule the day.

And summons are more important for no ither reason than to even the odds facing you and distract your enemies for a while and not cause your own tanks to be overwhelmed. Whether your summons actually do any serious damage is far less important than their decoying, odds-evening impact.


So, yes, your DFB won't slay any enemies with one blast. Boo-hoo. HOF is supposed to be a challenge, not a massacre. If you want to massacre goblins, just reimport your normal mode party and start another normal mode game. And then your 16d6 DFB will nuke goblins and orcs like bugs on a windshield. woo-hoo.

Come on, people. HOF was nothing more than a cheap way for BIS to give players a chance to keep playing their characters without going thru the incredible time or expense of creating another 30-40 hours more of new areas and story.

 

I actually like HoF more than the normal mode. When I started playing IWDII I really needeed something to occupy my mind and the challenge of HoF worked.

And as there are some seriously ridiculous aspects in HoF, like barrels and peasants that can take a couple of Horrid Wiltings without keeling over, it bothered me more that the normal mode fights had too small amount of monsters to make an army. That's at least what I thought.

But in any case. Viable melee characters? Cleric combos with high constitutions go a long way. Near or over 300 hp go a long way with the help of summons. Arcane casters with 18 str are fairly decent. It's teamwork and tactics that save the day, but with the right spells you get a little more time in hand-to-hand combat before needing to fall back and regroup.

Fighter/spellcaster types work, with the emphasis on the spellcaster. Basically anything that can deal a lot of damage and take a lot of damage works...And now I got the urge to make a barb/cleric!

 

Summoned HoF creatures are very good tanks.

In HoF, the only melee attacks which really matter are critical hits. I like to take high strength tanks with a two handed weapon which offers a x3 critical hit bonus and increase their chance of a critical hit as much as possible. Between spells(luck, E.E.), items found in regular and HoF mode(Tymoras loop, Young Ned's Knucky), Weapons which offer an increased critical range, and the improved critical feat you could have a tank which does massive damage(over 100 points IIRC) on more than half of his successful melee attempts.

 

I never bothered with tank/decoy PCs in my early games. They just bleed till the spell casters summon something, cast a symbol of hopelesness or release a dreadful banshee wail. This is the easiest method of going through HoF. WoB is very potent and kills most monsters. However it does not kill Slayer Knights of Xvim. Last time I checked they had more than +45 on their fortitude saving throws in HoF. Plus they have lots of invulnerabilities as well. You just have to beat them fast and continous before they decapitate you.

This time I am playing with Tal Rasha's wonderful Tactics4IWD2 mod so I am thinking of building a decoy, deep gnome, monk/something else character. It worked up to chapter two right now!

So some freakish combo with 60-70 AC may survie combat in HoF. Check PP gaming guides. Or, Coward's Flight axe is the best weapon for any meleer. It slows down the target and panics it with %50 chance each without saving throw! So, with fast enough attacks you can slow/scare most enemies before they overwhelm you:this is the only way of surviving for a normal melee doer in HoF, actually, with this weapon the combat squares in HoF are also very easyure hack-slash:the victim panics, turns to flee, but then gets slow down, and then finally gets choped in to pieces eventually! Too bad you can not find the weapon till late in the HoF game though.

 

Oh, I plan on giving HoF another chance once I've run my current party through normal mode. The thing is, I tend to play using my a variety of my favorite (unique) character builds.

You can read that last sentence as: I'm not really that great and tend to get crushed pretty easily.

 

The Normal mode version of this greataxe, Backblighter, is also quite potent in HOF, although it does require Will saves for its Slow and Panic effects. Still, most creatures will fail their Will saves quite often.

I loved to use this weapon, in either form, to panic one enemy, then move on to another one, during particularly tough battles. Panicked enemies tend to run around a lot, and trying to chase'em down while trying to kill'em is generally a waste of time. It was generally more effective to just hit'em til they panic, then pick a new target and let any available archer pepper the panicked foe, if there's no better/more important target (i.e. some sort of spellcaster).