How important is "power" in this game?

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I only have the Baldur's Gate games, and IWD1 to compare here.

In all of those games, you didn't need to be all that powerful to have fun and complete the game. More so in the BG games.

Do I really need to max out power here to be successful, or can I afford to roleplay a bit more, and still complete this game?

For instance, I see a lot of gamers lowering INT and CHA to 3 for characters that don't need the stat. Can I get by with a minimum of 8 or 10 in all ability scores?

What about playing mismatched race/class combos? Like having Dwarven Sorcerers, and Tiefling Clerics? How about Halfling Barbarians and Gnome Paladins? What about a Half-Orc Bard or a Drow Monk?

I'd really like to play this game, but I really also want to be commited to a certain party and stick with it. I've been known to chronically restart in the past, and don't want to do that with this game. I also would like to get through without using a walkthrough, and still experience a ton of stuff.

Any and all advice on the stuff I've written above, plus other basic IWD2 tips are greatly appreciated. TIA.

 

I don't think any of it really makes THAT much of a difference. Some people like to powergame to the extreme, and put themselves into the game with the absolute best odds they can. In my experience, the difference is noticeable, but not essential. A dwarven sorcerer won't make the game hell for you or anything, it just wouldn't be quite as powerful as an Aasimar, for example. You should be fine in general.

I would avoid mismatching multi-classes with their favored races, as the experience point penalty does tend to hurt. Also, people tend to avoid choosing a race who has a natural penalty to a class with a prime stat (such as a Dwarf's -2 to Charisma on a sorcerer who's prime stat is Charisma), because it puts you at a disadvantage right out of the box. A dwarven Wizard would be a better choice, and pretty close to the same thing. Perhaps you have a good role-playing reason for doing so, in which case, I say go for it.

But other than that, role play to your heart's content. I think it's funner that way.

 

Normal - power not important, people have completed the game with just about anything and everything. You'll probably have more fun if you avoid obviously awful choices, like a bard/wizard multiclass, or a character with 4 CON, or a party without any divine spellcaster, etc.

HOF - if you don't care about power, why play HOF? It's the same story, just with much tougher monsters. I hope you like spellcasting, because you'll need lots of it to take down the hordes of 200+ HP enemies. They also deal ridiculous amounts of damage, so you'll need a high-AC decoy or lots of summons.

 

Agreed, DR. In some ways, IWD2 lends itself to twinking more than any other IE game, because the way it implements 3e rules rewards min/maxing particularly well. But it also gives you the maximum amount of room to roleplay any character you want, certainly if you're not bothered about Heart of Fury mode (like me). Want to play a Dwarven Druid/Monk/Sorcerer? Fine. Knock yourself out. A CE Gnome Priest of Tempus/Illusionist/Rogue/Bard/Ranger/Fighter/Barbarian/...? Go right ahead.

You've got a lot more freedom, so it's entirely up to you how much you RP, and how much you twink. Just go with your gut instinct, and have fun. As a relative "n00b" I remember hearing a lot about how you don't need a pure rogue in this game, so I tried it without. But I didn't enjoy not having a dedicated backstabber, so I took one because I love playing with that type of character, irrespective of whether it's "optimal" or not.

As in any IE game, any party should be able to complete it. Some may hit bigger sticking points than others -- but hey! -- that's part of the fun; working your way out of a (seemingly) impossible situation.

If you're stuck for a first playthrough, it's difficult to go wrong with the basic 6-strong template of 2 tanks, a cleric, a rogue, an arcane blaster + 1 other of your choice. And you can always switch in & out new members, should the need arise.

 

I'm not interested in HOF mode. Thanks for these replies, and I look forward to more!

 

Well, if you're looking for consensus, I would certainly agree that you should be able to make whatever party suits your fancy work.

I would strongly recommend at least one character who is good at hide/move silently. Enemies work much more tactically in this game than they did in BG, so getting enemies to follow you one at a time to their deaths is generally not going to happen. If you mess with one enemy, he/she is going to call friends. So scouting is more important than ever if you want to the advantage of preparing for a fight. This is an aspect of IWD 2 that I particularly enjoy.

The game is heavy on fighting, so plan on doing a lot of it, and building a party that you enjoy working with in combat situations.

Of course, you're certainly doing yourself a favor by including at least 1 arcane caster, 1 divine caster, 2 good tanks, a stealthy character, etc. Someone who is good at wilderness lore (generally a ranger or druid, possibly a barbarian) has it's benfits also.

 

People have supposedly soloed this game with a Bard, so any party can finish.

Also, there are a range of difficulty settings so if it feels like your party is under or overpowered, you can change the difficulty setting.

As can be seen from my current SP IWD2 Adventure (see separate thread), the game can be interesting with a bunch of badly balanced misfits. My party has no warrior tank and no arcane bombardier, two roles that many people would say are essential.

It all comes down to playing style. For example, if you hate having to constantly buff up your characters and micromanage spells, then you'll want to have some point and shoot meat cleavers in your party. There are some points in the game where it will seem impossible to get past without a certain type of character, but there is always an alternative tactic waiting to be adopted.

The Sherincal battle is a classic. Look at the 'healing' that that gnome with the spider can cast on you and you will see that they are perfect for a party with no arcane casters coming up against that half dragon.

IWD2 is not like BG2 in the sense that you toast if you don't have someone who can counter all the cheating insta-buffed uber mages.

To answer on of your specific questions, I have never had a character with super low min maxed stats.

 

Personally, I completely despise playing characters that are min/maxed in this way. Oh, there was a day I did plenty of it myself, but them day's is gone.

I like my stats to make sense for who I envision the character to be, and I take the time to figure out who they are before I go very far (see my short novel in my return to targos thread if you don't believe me). If I'm going to go below an 8, I better have a darn good roleplaying reason for it.

 

That the game can be completed by a Bard is no biggie - Bards are pretty powerful in this game by default. Try soloing the game with a Rogue and you'll get a good impression of how truly difficult the game can be.

Even the normal version of the game can be very *difficult* without a spellcasting class of somesort, so whatever you don't, don't forget to bring at least one Druid/Cleric/Sorcerer/Wizard/Bard. Other than that, RP to your heart's content.

[ August 02, 2006, 10:34: Message edited by: Scythesong Immortal ]

 

As everybody else already said - you certainly don't have to powergame to beat this game. You probably just have to rest a little more often.
I don't powergame to make the game easier. I just like to follow some certain rules (like a certain theme on the party) and then optimize usually without sacrificing not optimized choices of race. To make the game harder with my more powerful party I rest a lot less than most others (I usually finish the game in about 30 gamedays). This makes the game perfectly balanced.

The difference between an powergamed party and a non-powergamed party is not that much. For example the difference between a fighter with 18 con and a fighter with 14 con is 17% more HP (with max-HP/lvl on) and a not too noticable +2 to fort-save. A greatsword +2 does an average damage of 15 instead of 12 for 18 str compared to 14 str (no extra bonuses and not counting criticals or the chance to hit). This can be of some difference with damage resistance but those can ususally be avoided by using another damage type.
A maximized score in your primary casting skill only gives a few extra castings and slightly higher DC, but you should have high enough to cast all spell levels you plan on casting, at least by the time you get access to them.

BTW you can make dwarven sorcerers wery powerful. Gold dwarf is ideal for that purpose. Any race that don't have a penalty in the casting ability will make a good caster given the right stats and spell choices. Even races with penalties can be good. Gray dwarfs and deep gnomes with maximized cha and a wolf hat reaches 19 cha at level 16, right before they gain lvl 9 sorc-spells at lvl 18, if they put all lvl-up points in it. Any race will make a good fighter with the right abilities.

[ August 02, 2006, 12:24: Message edited by: Mudde ]

 

Just adding my voice to those already said.

My advice is to role-play it. Chances are, your party will be quite capable of completing the game and having the concept of who each character is will help you not want to continually restart. I know what I'm talking about here- I'm one of those people who continually restart the game with different ideas, but never seem to get very far.

 

Klorox, you can solo through the normal campaign with any class (min/max would probably be necessary for most solos), so if you have more than one adventurer on your team then you're ahead of the curve. In fact, it would be difficult to create a party of atleast 4 which could not finish the normal campaign.

 

To put in my 2 cents...

I generally play the BG series for role-playing purposes and the IWD series for powergaming. The games are quite different.
In BG/BG2, the story is it's main selling point, and there are lots of opportunities to enjoy the role-playing experience.
A lot of people (including myself) bemoan the fact that IWD2 is far too linear, and far more of a "hack-and-slash" game - it makes it difficult to roleplay when there is no banter between party members. Sure you can invent some, but isn't that what the computer game should be for?
So you don't have to organize an evening to play the PNP version?
A more "accessible" way to play D&D?

The answer to the question is:
It is up to you - however you want to play the game is the best way.

 

I beg to differ. It just requires more, shock horror, imagination. I'm having loads of role-playing fun with my current SP IWD2 Adventure party.

 

I've read both here and in other places (forums, "hint" guides (where I only peek at character creation)) that magic using characters (both divine and arcane) are what really rule this game.

Is this true, even in regular (non-HoF) games?

For a rookie, what division of characters (non-spellcasters:spellcasters) will create a balanced, good party without being overpowered?

I don't want people to tell me what to play, but I'd love some hints that will make it so I won't be disappointed with my choices (I know me, and I'll restart, which I hate doing).

TIA

 

Just about any party can finish this game. They just require different tactics.

Spellcasters become more powerful as the game goes on but are weaker at the start.

I still maintain that it doesn't really matter what the makeup of your party is, but you will make life easier for yourself if you make sure you have:
- one high hit point meatshield
- one specialist arcane caster
- one specialist divine caster

Anything else is just filler.

 

I wouldn't say that spellcasters "rule" the game, but they allow for a ton of tactical advantages that a warrior and his sword can't pull off.

I guess it depends on how you play. If you just have casters throw tons of nukes on the enemy before they have a chance to respond, then I guess you might state that casters are the way to go. But you will also be resting a lot more often to recover spells.

In my personal style of play, I like to use the nuker to get the enemy's attention, perhaps have a divine caster throw a debilitating spell out at the same time (e.g. hold person) then send the troops in to mop up--these spells would be in addition to whatever buffs I'm throwing on people before a fight. Most of the casting I do from there is situational, but I'm generally trying to conserve resources.

This approach allows me to battle the enemies quite effectively while using a minimal number of resources. I'm usually able to keep the party moving forward for a good long time before the need to rest comes about. So if you're looking at party dynamics and efficiency, I think you want a good mix of casters and fighters.

So it really depends on how you want to play. The idea of resting after every 2 - 3 encounters because you've already blown your wad certainly doesn't appeal to this gamer....

 

A blind monkey with a wrench could finish this game in Normal Mode! I'm sure a Dwarven Sorcerer would have no trouble at all! Hehe...seriously though, the IWD2 campaign is no where near as hard as HOF mode is, so you will be fine with any class you play, as long as you play intelligently.

If you insist on meleeing Dragon's Eye with your Elven Wizard with 4 CON prepare to get your ass whupped.

On the other hand, buff up well, cast AoE spells intelligently, defend your casters, attack enemy spellcasters with your tanks...etc etc etc. You get the idea?

In HoF mode though...I just play a party of 2 Sorcs, 1 Wiz and 1 Cleric...easier that way!

 

This sounds like discrimination! I just so happen to have a very close friend who is a wrench toting monkey that happens to be blind! I'm offended. A BMWAW can be as capable and special as anyone else.

BMWAWs unite!

 

@ Faraaz:

So, you suggest a 4 man crew, or do you just fill the other two slots with whatever you feel like.

If I really like this game, I'd probably try it again in HOF mode.