How one becomes an attorney in your country

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Guys (and ladies), I've recently become the designated silvertongue of a newly starting social organisation which gets involved in the legislative process for the needs of the reform of legal professions here. Our system has been peculiar in that corporations have been pretty much stronger than anywhere else and there's been a ton of exams, not all of them fair and square, where they could block people from becoming competition. The ministry took over the exams but the results are even worse because they failed in the job. So now the parliamentary commission for making the state user-friendly, headed by a guy who's not directly interested because he's not a lawyer himself, has taken over the draft. Organisations like mine submit opinions during the commission's extended meetings. It has been raised that some of the institutions we're accustomed to, such as one exam to become a trainee and one exam to become a full attorney, are not really so obvious elsewhere in Europe and traineeship is generally open to anyone and not that long after all.

So I'd like to ask you - not only the lawyers (thinking of dmc, Beren and Ragusa of those I can name without scratching my head), but anyone who has some knowledge of the subject, what it looks like in your country. What interests me is:

- what's the path from graduating university to becoming the "standard" attorney (the most standard kind, no special rights but not a limited position either)?
- particularly, does it involve a period of traineeship (UK traineeship, Scotland - devilling, Poland - application)?
- is the traineeship (or whatever it's called) open to all or do you have to take an exam to qualify? How long does it take? Is there a final exam?
- what are the rights of a law graduate who is not a fully entitled member of the legal profession? In simple words, what can a person with a law diploma do that a non-law-graduate cannot?

And the best that could happen to me would be a descriptive source in English somewhere online. French will also do, but I'd prefer English.

Obviously, if you have a link to something like, say, your local bar of attorneys website detailing the process, don't feel obligated to brief it for me - just give me the link and I'll munch the data myself.

Thanks in advance to all who help.

 

Are you sure you want data from Serbia, chev?

Anyway here it is:

I'm not sure if anything is going to be changed in the laws regarding the stuff that you need to know about (since tertiary education in Serbia has only recently undergone Bologna reforme and the first generations of graduated students under that study programme are still a few years away) but so far, the graduated law students worked as trainees (this lasted up to five years, usually less, depending where they worked (see the end of the post)), before becoming admissible to take the bar exam. After the exam, they became fully licenced lawyers.

I'm not 100% sure, but my uncle is a lawyer and I can ask him for more details if you like, chev. (Also, I have a cousin who is a freshman at law faculty, so, I'll check with him to see if anything is changed about the process.)

Below is a link to the Attorney-At-Law Act, from the bar website. Section V (Articles 32 to 37) covers trainees.

http://www.advokatska-komora.co.yu/english/act/act.pdf

Also, I found some data on the bar exam, but there's no english version on the ministry website:

"Правосудни испит може полагати лице које је дипломирало на Правном факултету и које је после завршеног правног факултета стекло радно искуство на пословима правне струке и то:
две године у суду, јавном тужилаштву, јавном правобранилаштву и адвокатури;
три године у органу за прекршаје, другом државном органу, органу територијалне аутономије и локалне самоуправе;
четири године у предузећу, установи или другој организацији."

(http://www.mpravde.gov.rs/cr/articles/pravosudni-ispiti/pravosudni-ispiti/pravosudni-ispiti.html)

I'll translate as best as I can, but I'm not well versed in legal terminology:
"A bar exam can be taken by a person that has graduated from the Law Faculty and that has after graduation acquired work experience in legal affairs, namely:
2 years in court, public attorney's office, public defender, lawyer
3 years in the organ dealing with minor offences, state organ, organ of territorial autonomy and local self-management
4 years in a company, institution or some other organisation "

As for the exam itself it involves a written and an oral examination. Criminal and civil law are the subjects taken for the written test while criminal, civil trade, international, constitutional and two more laws are taken via oral examination.

Hope this helps.
Let me know if you want more data regarding it here in Serbia.

 

Hold on here....

Where's the part about selling your soul to Satan?

What about the surgical procedure for removing conscience?

Are those just optional?

 

Come now, not all lawyers are evil. There are some that specialise in personal injury cases. They scam insurance companies for their clients. Thats gotta be a good thing, no? =p

 

In Germany you study law, and eventually make your Erstes Staatsexamen (emphasis on material law). When you pass you then have the rough equivalent of a master's degree. Then you enter the Refendariat, a two year preparatory service (emphasis on procedural law and practical application) in which you'll clerk for judges, attorneys and prosecutors and eventually make your Zweites Staatsexamen. When you pass you're a fully qualified lawyer and can enter the local bar association and can add the 'RA' to your name - attorney at law.

 

That is the worst kind of evil. They are called "ambulance chasers" for a reason. It is because of lawyers like that that medical costs are so high and we were subjected to the likes of John Edwards.

 

As for 'ambulance chasing', if the law permits it, it will be done. If punitive damage allows for compensation amounting to up to iirc 30x the damage caused, just because a jury thinks the offending party is an a@@hole, it will be imposed, and it will be attractive to sue for such amounts, even more so when the attorney receives a success quota as it is common in the US.

If you don't like it, change the law. Don't blame the lawyers.

It is for a reason we don't have such excesses here in Germany. A quota litis, fishing for damages while working for free (also known as waylaying), is considered unethical and is thus banned by law. Punitive damage is not allowed. In a nutshell, we have the principle of 'natural restitution' - the reconstruction of the state before the damaging event. In principle compensation does not exceed that, and certainly not by up to thirty times.

On the flip side, damages are perhaps at times rather low, especially in cases of bodily harm, and in particular when compared to the sums known from the US. That, on the other hand makes risks manageable which benefits society as a whole. This conservatism avoids excess a la americaine as far as damages are concerned. That said, inevitably we also have damage seekers, but they sums involved generally are more reasonable than in the US. Which doesn't mean the people who get waylaid aren't hurt by such conduct.

 

Does that JD without bar admission fall under unlicensed practise of law when he drafts an opinion or gives legal advice? What's the pass/fail rate of the bar exam? Are there any local bars that are notorious for coming up with unreasonable questions or mistakes in the key or siding with one party to a doctrinal dispute? Any significant cases of bars delaying admission when they can't block it, or ignoring court orders to put someone on the list of attorneys?

Absolutely.

And I'd be grateful for some details on what the exam looks like, who makes up the questions, who grades it and so on.

So what's the difference between a Master's and the first exam? Or do you just have the first exam instead of the university's degree procedures?

 

there are a few different ways to become a lawyer, so i will only as you requested write about the most common.


study law at university for 5 years and then you are a lawyer.

to get in all you have to do is pass your high school exams with the lowest possible average or above

in the 5 years there is a 3 year bachelor and a 2 year master, in both there are numerous courses you have to pass to get your diploma

i only know few people that study law, and none of them has completed yet, so i do not know much other that this

 

The difference is that there is no master, not yet, because we still are introducing the Masters degree under the Bologna process. With making the Erstes Staatsexamen, you are a 'Diplom Jurist' or a 'magister juris' (depending on your university) - which, however, doesn't allow you to work as a lawyer - for that you'd need to make the Zweites Staatsexamen.

Germany is still transitioning to the Bachelor/ Master system. Which complicates things for the students. Basically, in the field of Law Germany sticks to the old rules, as the legal education in Germany is aimed on preparing the student for the office of a judge. Which may aim a little high as the majority of students will later work as attorneys, not as judges. Still, I don't expect that to change any time soon.

 

It has a written and an oral part (scheduled at a later date). During written, applicants solve "practical problems from civil and criminal law" and during the oral they take the following subjects:
Constitutional law and judicial organizational law,
Criminal Law,
civil rights,
Commercial (business) right,
private international law
Administrative law,
Business Law

Here is the Law on bar exam in Serbia which is quite detailed, but I was unable to find a version in English. Google translates it... not great, but to some extent.
PM me if you need help with it.

Basically, the program of the exam is given by the Minister of Justice, exam is taken before a committee of seven members (one chairman), the committee decides by voting and is appointed by the Minister of Justice. (Members are either lawyers who have taken the bar exam, or they can be professors of the Law faculty for certain "positive" (no idea what that is) subjects, without the bar exam.)
The written part is graded by the member of the committee in charge for the subject which is taken (civil, criminal law) and he comes up with the questions for it. Grades are "great", "good" and "does not satisfy". Only "great" and "good" are pass.
The oral exam is graded separately for every subject, with same grades. If the candidate passes four or more subjects, but not all, he can reschedule the others at a later date.
A philologist (appointed by the Minister of Justice) is grading both the written and all of the oral exams.
The areas graded are: "knowledge of positive regulations and court practice", understanding of the essence of legal institutions, proper reasoning and eloquence (way of talking).
The general success on the bar exam is derived from all the grades. Only the candidates which have "excellent" grades from all oral and written tests, as well as a "excellent" grade from the philologist, are said to have "passed with merit".

 

Here in Sweden it is very similar to Germany as far as I know. You go to school, pass your exams and then you have to clerk for a year or two to get your license

 

I'm pretty sure the US lets the states make their own rules, because I know some places require a degree from law school to take the Bar Exam, and others don't. Some allow some time spent working for a lawyer as another way into the Bar exam, and some just let you show up and assume that if you can pass it, you know enough to be a lawyer.

As for the exam itself, I have no idea, but I think it may be nationalized through the ABA (American Bar Association).

 

NOG,

I have a family member who just went through this, and he told me that there is a national bar exam which all law school graduates must past, and then there is a state-specific exam that you have to pass in the state in which you are going to practice law. Some states have reciprocity agreements where if you pass the bar in one state it works in the other. But all lawyers, regardless of where they live have to take the national exam.

 

Ah, but my point is that you don't have to graduate from law school to take the exam everywhere, do you? I didn't realise the Bar Exam was nationally mandated, and I didn't realize states have their own versions as well. Thanks for the info.

 

I spent some time checking this out, and am fairly certain that you do. You don't, however, have to graduate from an ABA approved law school in every state. Moreover, many states allow lawyers who didn't attend an ABA approved school to take their bar after passing the bar (and often practicing law for a number of years) in another state.