How powerful is Elminster?

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I know Old E would mop the floor with Irenicus, but what about Elminster vs Demogorgon?

What is this "Silver Fire" that Mystras choosen have? How does it work?

[ September 29, 2006, 14:19: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

Elminster would probably die against demogorgon. But fact remains that there are many different opinions on Arch Dukes and Demon Princes, and thus their stats.

More than that you have to consider the political power they possess and thus just getting to them is through thousands of fiends.

 

Surely Elminster himself has quite the amount of political power himself Being the Godess of Magic's personal loveslave (iirc) tends to help. So I think that might even things out equally.

Surely if Elminster would raise the call, many mages would follow.

(My FR-fu isn't too strong, so I could be terribly wrong, this is just the way it seems to me)

 

Well, Elminster founded the harpers and he have many powerfull friends, i.e Khelben Blackstaff.

Does anybody know the stats of Elminster or could give me url to a site that has stats of the famous people in Faerun? I've serached a bit on www.wizards.com but the site is so hard to navigate.

And how does Silver Fire work?

 

Silver fire is raw weve energy. Basically it'll incinerate anything or it'll heal a person completely. The chosen can only cast silver fire once every hour (iirc).

Elminster would beat Demogorgon if they were both fresh and Elminster didn't have to fight through his hordes of followers.

Elminster is probably the most powerful 'mortal' (if you could call him that, considering how long he's been alive for) on Toril however he would be no match for a god.

 

I think I read up somewhere that Elminster has a CR of 31 and his intelligence is in the high 20 region. Or is that his con?

Anyway, I hope this helps somewhat?

 

Always the voice of reason... What a buzzkill!

Teehee

 

that's true BTA, though from the stats of the two buggers it's pretty hard to deny the awesome might of Demogorgon. El is a weird multiclass thing and an a fine mage, while Demogorgon is a unique outsider with quite an extensive list of powers that rivals the power of many dieties.

as for the political power, Demo is a warlord in the bloodwar and has uncountable demons under his command. El couldn't possibly rally anything even merely like it.

Really depends on what statistics you use for Demogorgon to see what the outcome would be, and how much Mystra would intervene if it came to a battle.

 

I have elminster's stats as according to I believe the 3ed epic lvl handbook, if you would like that you can pm me.

 

Just to put this in perspective, give him a thousand years and a pointy hat, and Edwin wold kick his arse.

 

One of edwin's finest quotes right there. By the way elminster's INT is 27 he got it there with 3 or 4 wish spells.

 

Gee, three or four Wishes, and that's ALL he got? Man, I'd have immortality, mutant powers, my own plane, and that's just for the first wish...

Seriously, how can you respect someone whose power comes from making wishes?

 

As in the wish spell... lol. Using the spell wish takes very high wisdom and is just very diffucult to get what you want.

 

Well, considering that the Simbul single-handedly slaughters several arch-devils, as well as thousands of minor devils and such; and El is only slightly less powerful than she is, I think it's safe to assume that good Ol' El would take Demogorgon out (a single blast of Silver Fire would probably go a long way towards that end...)

 

Don't forget, no matter how powerful a spell, there is always an equally powerful defence.

 

But is there a counter for silver fire? IIRC it bypasses MR and there's no save for it.

Haven't seen many protection from silver fire scrolls laying around, maybe prot from magic would work though

 

Well if there are any prot from magic scrolls lying around the realms Elminster would have one... excruciatingly powerful they are. It's an anti magic fields and a scroll that anyone can read to just make an anti magic field is very powerful.

 

In the Spellfire books some mages manage to create barriers able to block the spellfire. Then again in the 3:rd Spellfire book it's made clear that silver fire and spellfire are not the same thing.

Spellfire is the raw form of magic, used for either incredible damage or healing. It can also absorb magic directly. Spellfire does appear in various forms throughout Faerún, though very rarely. Silver fire on the other hand, though possessing roughly the same characteristics, is even more powerful than spellfire. And only Mystra has the ability to use it, or to grant the ability to use it to her chosen.

So it's hard to say wether there really is a way to block silver fire or not. In the book Elminster in Hell, it's quite apparent that Elminster has an immense control over the silver fire there. It's supposed to be extremely consuming to the caster, yet El uses it time and time again with no rest and his memories being drained from him all the time.

As for his power otherwise, I'm not sure if you can trust the CR 31-32 estimate anymore. Afterall Elminster in Hell is a fairly new book, and since Ed Greenwood is the creator of the realm, if he makes El more powerful, then more powerful El will be. There's no doubt as to wether El is a lot more powerful in Elminster in Hell than in the books before it.

Still, it's all speculation. Elminster does not only have the silver fire. He has several other abilities gained from Mystra as well. In addition to that, it's not certain how well developed his psionic abilities presently are. Considering the effects he could manifest in the Making of a Mage, while so young (such as self-resurrection and healing), it's safe to assume he has much more than his outside magical prowess in his arsenal. Which is immense by its own right already.

And as said, realistically Mystra would probably intervene. She has every other time El has been about to die, thus far.

 

Well there is of course larloch who undoubtly with his 2nd ed stats would beat Elminster being a lvl47 archlich and a netherese archwizard. Ofcourse Larloch was completeley "nerfed" in 3rd edition but if using epic lvl handbook rules he would become more powerful than Elminster even in 3rd edition.

There are of course others too who come very near the powers of Elminster for example Simbul, Telamont and Halaster but none of these are quite as powerful. In 2nd edition they had quite a lot of characters who were more or less as powerful as Elminster but most of them have been buried and forgotten and I very much doubt that they will ever be officially converted to 3rd edition.