Human Distinction

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Thought Numero 212312 (since I became sceptic of everything) sprang into my mind today.

What is distinctively human without recourse to the metaphysical or supernatural.

 

I'd say that emotion is one of the things that make us human. We love, we hate, we desire.... something no artificial thing or a creature living on instincts can do.

Or words to that effect.

Edit: On noting that emotion is metaphysical, I have to say that the human ability to create fiction, tell stories, to imagine is what separates us from others.

Unless that's metaphysical, too :/

[ August 30, 2003, 16:49: Message edited by: Arabwel ]

 

This might or might not be what you were looking for, but what makes us human is the architecture in which our DNA is organized, ie where each gene is located in relation to all others. This is a physical property which nothing else possesses.
I find it fascinating that we carry our humanity into each and every tiny cell in our body.

 

Emotions? not likely, Most primates have all of them, greed, love, desire, sadness, shame, etc. Even Dolphins mirror almost any emotional aspect of humans.

What then? Except of course DNA, nothing. Everything derives from DNA base pairs. We are mammals like so many other animals. All we have ,that other mammals don't, is a far more developed ability to think far more abstract and deductive. More precisely "the cortex" in our brain. Its relative size and activity is unmatched by any mammals. Cortex is possibly not the entire answer, but it is a solid foundation, if any single physical attribute should be mentioned, of what makes humans, human.

 

I said what is distinctively human, DNA does not count because animals have DNA too.

Neither does cortex, since some animals have that as well.

 

Our ability to believe what we prefer to be true?

 

Thats a good one, and why do we want things to be true??

 

Perhaps because we one day realized the one question we really want answered - why we exist - is the one question we would never be able to answer. If we had the answer (if we even knew how to define the question), we would most likely not understand it. Instead, we have the ability to believe in illusions, so we won't go insane thinking of the big Question.

 

Morgoth, I hate to quote myself, but here it goes:

I am well aware that DNA is not a prerogative of us humans: the way DNA is coded has been dubbed the "language of God" by some, referring to the universality of it throughout living beings (with some notable exceptions which use RNA instead). But the way the genes and the other elements of the genome are organized within each cell is what defines us, and, finally, every species. In fact, we might very well carry totally different sequences in each gene across the whole genome, but all their respective positions would be the same (e.g. genes coding for genetically inherited disorders are always found in the same spots of the genome).

But here I give you another, less biological one:
the ability to study and understand the world around us: you do not need to understand gravity to learn how to fall, but no other being ever came to define the acceleration of a free-falling object in the earth atmosphere.
Jeez I am feeling technical today.

 

Nothing about the metaphysical or supernatural?

Why, I can't think of much.

 

Animals don't do that?

That's quite funny, since I never seen a cat playing while falling from the 10th floor...
Maybe because he KNOWS that he will land.

That because we humans have a more complex brain, think of the difference between a supercomputer running Linux and an old computer running Windows 3.1 with 16mb RAM...

 

well, if you don't find DNA distinctive enough, then nothing. Face it, we're a product of biological molecules that all end being the same stuff in origin

 

What use is this truth?


Let's take a few steps back, I made the mistake of calling emotions metaphysic, of course do animals have emotions and desires, but are there distinct emotions and desires?

[ August 30, 2003, 22:09: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

 

Weaseling out of things is what separates us from the animals... except the weasel. (If you think I was serious, you should watch more Simpsons)

I believe animals have the same emotions as humans. The desires of animals however are different. An animal has three goals in life: eat, reproduce, and survive. Everything an animal does has something to do with these three activities. A human has about the same desires in live, even though humans often seem interested in earning money, something which is unseen in the animal world and we sometimes seem to lack one or more of the three desires stated above.

What I think seperates use from the animals? The ability to judge our own actions, find arguments to strengthen our decisions, and to really think about the choices we make.

 

Well eat and survive are almost the same, ey?

And what does money give us?

BTW, do animals also have "irrational" fear.

 

I actually meant eating and surviving as two different things. Of course you need to eat to stay alive, but with surviving I meant things like staying away from predators, or not jumping to your death.

Money is the tool to make life more comfortable. People with more money aren't necesserily happier, but having more money can make life easier in certain ways and allows a certain luxery in life. In our current society, money is one of the most powerful tools. The 'luxery' a certain animal has, is determined by it's status in a group. Higher members of animal groups often have the privilege of eating first, and choosing the best mate to reproduce.

 

The answer to the big question is not why do we exist. We exist for the same reason carbon dioxide exists. You put billions of molecules in contact with billions of other molecules over billions of years and hey presto, you get a few million molecules that makes up a being, which believes that it is the most important entity in creation. (Even living at the centre of the Universe until not so long ago).

The big question is actually what caused the Big Bang, and can we sue it for all the electrical interference that the Big Bang continues to causes to this very day?

It is wierd to think that if you roll back our DNA far enough you will find that most creatures have a common ancestor (please speak more of RNA, it sounds interesting).

Imagine that a similar scenario was put in play today. You have two sons, and you strive to give them the best future you can, while raising them in a loving environment. One billion years hence the decendants of one son are farming and eating the decendants of the other son. Their Great, Great....Great Granddaddy would be so dissapointed (horrified).

I'm not a veggie, and I would happily char grill my brother on a spit, but I get the feeling that my father would not approve. In fact I am pretty sure he would frown on such behaviour.

Swerving swiftly back on topic. If a vastly technologically superior space-being visited earth, to it our speech would be as ape grunts. Our houses would be no more than ape byers. We would not be distinct. If we tried to nuke it, (am I the only one thinking this at this point?) then that would be no different to a gorrilla's chest beating displays. Many psuedo-simmians would be beating something else entirley as the End Of Days loomed into view.

It would be the end of days. For just as we can eat apes because we are smarter than they, so too can an alien race freely consume us, if they are smarter than we. Fair is fair.

Last point. Most controversial point.
If you say art, expression, emotion, abstract thought etc. are all part of being human, does that mean that mentally handicapped people that have a mental age of two and a half (about the same as a clever sheep dog)are not human?

I have seen documentaries about apes that use sign language and are more self-aware than some mentally handicapped people. Are they more human than their unfortunate cousins?

The counterbalance of works worthy of distinction that a few noble souls try to make is lost in the overwhelming tide of self-interest of the many. The answer is no, their is no distinction. If you take the animal out of the human, there is nothing left.

[ August 31, 2003, 02:36: Message edited by: Gollem ]

 

The truth we prefer is a substitute for a truth we will never find. My notes on the subject, for instance, are merely part of one of my illusions.

It has no direct application, I should think, except that when enough people start believing in different "truths", they tend to start wars. I'm not sure I've come across too many animals who have started wars because they have different ideologies.

 

Morgoth I suggest you read my post again. And take Lokken's with just for safe keeping.

Morgoth what makes blue more blue than yellow?
Yeah. Come on people!! Lets get all edgy and hyped up about it! Lets make a thread about it Wooohoooo.

Just for the record I will make a summarized post for you:
A) Distinction; none: Mammal=mammal.
B) Difference; some: Mental abilities. no unique physical attributes. See A for reference. Most significant physical difference from other animals; The cortex. Most significant observations with the cortex; High degree of Abstract thoughts(just for those unfamiliar with the word, abstract thoughts are what generates concepts like thruth, justice and even religion for some).
C) Distinction; none: mammal=mammal

Short enough, this time?


@Gollem

Couldn't help but smile at this. Ever heard of circular argumentation or rather selective argumentation? Anyway. Since mammals still equal mammals, then if you take away one noticable differing human aspect, our mental capacity, we are no different than other mammals intellectually. And if you choose (selective argumentation) to only define mammals by their intellect, you will reach a grey zone with individuals handicapped from the norm. For instance a newly born zebra is an insect if only we choose a wise set of selective argumentations. Luckily the reasonable observers would say that there is more that makes a human a human than the intellect. Our body features, which are conviniently also derived from DNA. The biological cornerstone of determining species. Nothing else, which seems to be what lots of people are fetching for here.

[ August 31, 2003, 01:12: Message edited by: Nobleman ]

 

Art, TV, Sports, Reading, Writing, Driving.. making money, it's all a waste of time man, lol.
If any is seeking a higher truth in these aspects, try consider what you do to entertain yourself when not having a knife at the throat. Human kind have developed tools that has made the essential "survival awareness" instinct useless since we don't really have any enemies we have to look out for.

So what we do when we're not on guard, not reproducing, not eating, not sleeping, not anything.. we're bored. So what we do? Think of random stuff and find it curious and fun.
Any species with a few braincells would find some form of entertainment if they didn't have to fear anything, and wasn't content with sleeping, eating, and mating all day.