I really need an opinion from all of you

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I´ve played trough the HoF mode recently and I ended up with a strange feeling about my Aasimar pure druid.
It is worth it?
I mean, there are VERY FEW high level spell choices( some are nice, I give you that)but in the other hand, 8 and 9 level aren´t to die for.
I kind of like all the summon animal companion spells, but around the character´s level 20, I always summons an elemental!
Is this rigth? Just to ask, there are not ANY other REALLY COOL,BIG,NASTY and Powerfull "animal companion" than an elemental?(for example a withe dragon or something more "animal" than an animated piece of earth(or wind or watever)?
If I want an elemental around my neck, I asked for it! That´s why "summon elemental legion" is for!
Oh, and the all-migthy wirlwind! A piece of advice to all you newbies that just start the game: you will NEVER take adventage of this spell like your enemies do! This spell seems to really miss you, because it has the nasty tendence to crawl back to you no matter where you move.
And the shapeshift mode sucks, what is the fun of change into an elemental and STILL being a lame figter, who can not stand in the fron line?
If I want a meat shield, "raise dead" is a must!
So I let the question floating for you: Is there ANYWAY of playing a druid rigth?

[ August 16, 2006, 23:29: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

Try the level 4 Giant Vermin spell. Like Animate Dead, they become more powerful as your level increases - you'll end up conjuring huge beasties!

 

Polar or dire bear shapechange is quite useful at mid-levels, my druid in polar bear form beat all battle square battles in normal mode without reloading.
Like you I'm also dissappointed with animal summoning 7-9, 2 dire bears for as7, 4 at as8 and 6 at as9 would be better than the useless elementals, but there are other spells.
Finger of death at is a good level8 spell, and the shamblers summoned at level9 are the most powerful summons in the game, mass heal is great.
One useful spell per level is enough, but there are others I didn't even try. Any spellcaster has useless spells.
My favourite druid spells are call lightning and static charge especially with the right feats, they are cumulative with themselves and each other.
You can get 1-2 highly damaging electric attacks per round at your enemies for about 100 rounds while being free to attack or cast other spells.
For some the barkskin spell alone is useful enough to use a druid.

 

I´ve tried the giant vermin and is not as powerfull as raise dead(as you increase in level) because is not inmune to certain damage like the undeads.
For the battle square room, I have my own technique(it´s a little bit cheesy but works all the time) so no need for an specialized spell caster, a paladin works for me.
It is true that I miss my druid in the 8 chambers, but lately I prefer a good sorcerer or wizard(still is a pain in the asss).
About the finger of dead... never liked me, seems to me that every enemy rolls a natural twenty when I used it.
Mass heal, is a really good spell, but if you play with a cleric and a minor second healer(paladin or other multi-class cleric), you´re not gonna miss it.
Unlike the Heal spell,mass heal DO have a casting time(8 or the like), time that usually you don´t have in the heat of a batlle.
The point here still is that shamblers are only 11 HD while elementals are 16 HD, but you can´t control them at all( in my game they tend to scatter all over the area).
You´re rigth about that one good spell is enough(for you may be) but what really makes me sick is that you only can choose between two or three spell. unlike the high level arcane spells.There always seems to be a shame when you have to choose between excecutioner´s eyes,gate,banshee, power word, etc.
But there is a ligth at the end of the tunnel.I´m gonna try the "Talos mode" on the druid.The lightning spells are powerfull enough to satisfied the high demands on the HoF mode.
Anyway, a final Q: what are those "rigth" feats you´re talking about?

 

I don't particularly like Giant Vermin in HOF. Oh, the giant Rhino Beetle can be a great damage sponge. But it's SOOOOOOOO huge that it's really only useful in open areas where it won't block you from moving, assuming that you don't want to be blocked.

Yes, elementals can be annoying if you aren't protected from evil. But fire elementals are great to use in conjucture with a lot of fire-based attack spells, particularly Firey Cloud. Just drop a fire elemental out in front of your party to draw in the enemies, then drop a Firey Cloud on top. The FE will ignore the damage and the enemies will get burned to a crisp.

BTW, this tactic is particularly useful on the 3rd level of Dragon's Eye against the jellies that require a lot of fire damage to destroy, particularly in HOF mode.


As far as Lord Fox's final question about any way to play a druid "right"? I don't really know. I've never been a big fan of druids myself.

 

GSF transmutation and scion of storms.
Damage is increased by 20 percent and enemies get a -4 penalty to their saves.
It's a pity that the druid's wisdom modifier isn't applied to the saves.

 

The reason why Druids are so weak is that it's the most buggy class out there. And while the elemental forms and summons have nice tactical uses, these leave a lot to be desired.
Note that Druids fulfill their role best from low-mid levels.

 

I love druids.

Spellcasting druids, shapeshifting druids, fighter/druids, sorcerer/druids...


Love'em.


The elementals summons are just nasty, finger of death is just too funny, and they got the two coolest spells in the game: call lightning and smashing wave. Shapeshifting druids are a little (and by a little I mean a freaking lot) harder to get "right" but can be a lot of fun, fighter/druids can be quite deadly.

I think that the thing with druids is that they're not as uber as the other casting classes, they're not never ending buffing/hacking machines like clerics, nor weapon of mass destruction like wizards/sorcerers but they're still a great cool fun class.

Oh and Barkskin is great...

[ August 15, 2006, 04:02: Message edited by: Bronze ]

 

Fire elementals are extremely useful. They will hol mosnters in place an you can drop Delayed Blast Fireballs for insane amounts of damage! It is much better than Fiery Cloud, as it does damage instantly, and does massive damage, just like Horrid Wilting.

Too bad Druids can not protect themselves from the elementals they summoned, which makes no sense at all.

 

I love using druids as support casters. They can't match the cleric in healing, but you don't really need 2 persons with that many healing spells and Druids have much better attack spells than Lathander or Talos clerics.
Elemental legion is a good way to fill the place with powerful summons and with a cleric in the party they won't bother you.
Shambler gives some of the best summons in the game.
I don't use summons so mass heal is enough to make lvl 9 a good spell lvl for druids. Tremor can also be useful. I think spell lvl 6 is the only weak spell lvl for druids. Clerics have both lvl 7 (for non-good aligned at least) and lvl 9 that aren't too good.
Don't shapeshange as a druid without spells is only like an underpowered fighter. (Maybe for specific tasks but not often.) A druid with maximized strength and con will also be great as backup fighters.

 

Shapeshifting druids can actually fight like an average fighter/rogue but you need to really specialize your druid (multiclass to monk to get the AC bonus, get some fighter levels to increase hit points, get some sorcerer spells like mirror image or iron body (shapeshifting dispells snares you can go full speed in iron body), multiclass to barbarian/rogue if you want to enrage/backstab...etc), he will be a lousy spell caster and weak in humanoid form but will definitely hold his own in fights.

EDIT: Yay fire gem x)

 

It's neither neccessary nor recommended to take other levels than druid levels in a normal game.
For example a level 15 druid in dire bear form has 30 (up to 38 when buffed) strength, gets 4 attacks per round and can throw around lightnings without having to interrupt fighting.

The Guardian's 15 damage reduction can absorb fighters' or summonened skeletons' attacks, but it won't be enough against lightnings or static charges.

 

I understand almost everything you people said, but there´s still something I can´t figured out.
Some of you embraces the summon technique with the druid, the fire elemental this or that or wathever.But those "things" annoyed me to dead, because YOU CAN NOT CONTROL THEM.
I mean, wath´s the point of summoning something that only helps you in ONE single battle?
If I´m gonna take the risk of bringing a nasty SofBitch from another plane, I wanted on my side!
Not wandering arround like some 5 years old child(and still expecting to turn on me at every second)
About the shapeshifting, well, I think(honestly) that I´m not THAT good yet(still don´t like me at all), but tomorrow...who knows.
On the other hand, it seems that the druid´s spells increases on level, so I don´t see the adventage of crazy multiclasing like Bronze said.
Anyway, may be the intention of BI was this: give us the opportunity to finish the game with an underpower,buggy,annoying, no-sense-at-all class.
Oh, a final thoug, the druids sucks like this in any previous Engine game?

 

Lord Fox, I understand what you're saying about uncontrolable summons and how annoying they can be. However, they CAN be useful if used properly and summoned at the right time.

Yes, they're useless as allies to lead a party into a new area and act as an initial magnet for bad guys.
OTOH, there are some major battles in the game where there are LOTS of enemies. And dropping an elemental or a summoned demon behind enemy lines, particularly right in front of some nasty enemy spell casters, can be an awesome tactic. Yes, you can't control them, but in that scenario, it doesn't really matter all that much. You're not summoning them to fight shoulder to shoulder with you. You're summoning them to cause total havoc, and as long as they're attacking anything and drawing enemy attention, the behind-the-lines elemental or demon is being successful.

That said, always try to keep enemies between you and any summoned demon, if you're worried about having your PfEvil running out or getting dispelled.

A well-timed and placed Gate spell can be seriously amusing in a big HOF battle.

 

Ah, the whole thing has sense now!
To speak the truth, I´m not a big fan of summoning strategy and (believe or not) I always try to beat the game with the little summoned help possible.
That´s the way I always figth this kind of games, ´cos I like the "hack and slash" thing, and letting other creature to do the dirty job it´s a waste(to me) of money(spent on those shinny and expensive weapons).
But you´re damn rigth about it: the elementals are REALLY NASTY and can stand alone in the front line with a bunch of Xvim knigths hacking at them.
OTOH, I´ve never tried the Gate spell: it migth be usefull?

 

@Lord Fox:
Your druid sucks to you because you are not willing to develop a method how to use him properly.
Mages and clerics are standard classes and it's obvious how to use them. A druid requires more thinking.
A cleric and a sorc can lead your party through the game easily, why bother thinking with your druid ?
Just have him use a sling and complain that he does less damage than a fighter.

Let's use your druid summoning logic on other classes:

Clerics and mages suck, because:
The summon with the most HD you can have with a cleric or mage is a gated demon, you cannot control it, other summons like animated undead are worse since they have only 9 HD, so all mage or cleric summons suck.

Did you ever summon a shambler ? Did you ever test the shambler's power in a duel with an elemental ? Did you ever use the shambler's immunity to fire ? Or did you just conclude that shamblers are just 11 HD (2 HD more than the best undead summons by the way) and never tried them ?

You consider finger of death as useless because some victims saved with a natural 20.
If your enemies get in a few criticals in a row, you probably conclude that AC is useless.
And if you roll a few 1's in a row while attacking, you conclude that physical attacks are useless.

Do you know how to use "call lightning" and "static charge" properly ?
You can cast invisibility on your druid afterwards and wipe out whole camps pretty fast without the enemies ever realising what hit them.

You are disappointed that shapeshifted druids are not more powerful than fighters, but if they were, who would take a fighter ?

It's obvious that any party needs a cleric and sorcerer, but if you consider the remaining party members a druid doesn't look bad compared to the other classes.(unless you prefer having 5 mirror imaged sorcs running around abusing the bug that the overpowered WotB doesn't affect party members.)

 

dear Kmonster:
I´ve already said that I´m not in the "summon" strategy like many people do.And yes you´re rigth about the FoD spell, and I actually tested the difference between an undead and a shambler(you´re also rigth), but if you read carefully, I never said "druid sucks", I just wanted a few impresion about MY kind of roleplay in druidics matter, and if some people feel the same about it or if just was me.
I´m not stupid, I KNOW that shambler ARE the better summon ever(still, elementals are 16 HD), and FoD is a great spell, and shapeshifting could be fun(hmmmm...).
I know that electric spells are powerfull, and you´re never gonna get a good melee figther with a druid-character based, even if he/she is shapeshifted.
But the whole thing about this post was if there is a "rigth" way to play with a druid(more than one way), why they don´t get a decent spells selection and why they are not matched with for example a cleric(very druid like divine caster).
Anyway, I never really liked druids, so I have to admit I migth being a "little" subjective here, but I also post a question about this: Did you note it if druids weren´t more powerfull in previous Infinity Engine games?

 

The older IE games are all 2E instead of 3E, so the system is totally different.
Dualclassed spellcasters are always far better than pure ones.

In 2E druids reach level 12 pretty fast, they have 3 levels more than clerics at this time, but you have to wait an eternity to gain the next two levels while the others keep levelling. This doesn't feel good.

In all prior games playing without a cleric or arcane caster is more difficult than playing without a druid.
Mage is always the cheesy class which gets better equipment and more spell power.

In IwD1+HoW you can gain immunity against physical damage with a fighter/druid in water elemental form using the right equipment and summoned shamblers are nearly immune to crushing damage.
But I hardly ever used the druid abilities before I played a HoF solo with a fighter/druid.

 

"OTOH, I´ve never tried the Gate spell: it migth be usefull?"

The Gate spell is certainly very useful. It's a level 9 summoning spell, so how can it be anything else but useful. But the demon summoned is uncontrolable and will certainly attack you, if you're not protected from Evil or you are careful to keep some enemies between you and the demon.


One of the more amusing times that I cast the Gate spell was in an HOF game in the Ice Temple. I summoned the Gate demon into the middle of the Ice Troll room. The gazillions of trolls couldn't seem to hurt the demon and the demon would nearly kill one troll, but couldn't get the kill, so I'd have to be ready to burn any troll that was near death, so that my summoned demon wouldn't waste time wailing on an unconscious troll.


Back to summons...


Lord Fox, sometimes the reasons for summoning monsters is not so much that you're looking for them to kill enemies for you, as much as it's to act as a decoy and a way to even the odds against your party.

Summoning an elemental or a demon behind enemy lines may or may not kill a lot of enemies. But that's not really the point. What you're really looking for it to do is wreak havok in the enemy's rear and forcing the enemy to deal with this major threat.

 

I've always liked Druids, haven't really played IWD2 yet, but I did create a druid for my first attempt. I'm disappointed about the summons in IWD2 as you can't control them, the same as a mage/sorc can't but in the other games you could, and the reason was simple as a servant of Nature a druid could control natural creatures, why this has changed I don't know.

But the main reason for loving druids is they do the best electrical damage in the game, very few monsters have resistance to it, a lot are vulnerable to it and 'Call Lightning' and 'Static Charge' do insane amounts of damage over a long period of time, I've stacked 5 charges before a room opened the doors and walked in a few mins later to a room full of dead things.

Yes they can be a sod to play but that's half the fun.