Immigration

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I'm interested in hearing what people think about illegal immigration. Most of you probably know that the U.S. has a huge influx of illegal immigrants from Mexico. To some extent that's a good thing, as they tend to take jobs that natives and legal immigrants don't want. But there's also an argument that because they are still eligible for public services like schools without paying income taxes they are therefore a drain on society. Pat Buchanan-style conservatives also argue that illegal immigrants have no loyalty to our country and actually work to undermine America.

What are the problems or advantages of illegal immigrants in your country? How significant is it? Where do they tend to come from? What, if anything, do you think should be done about it?

[ September 06, 2002, 16:45: Message edited by: Shralp ]

 

Hm, well the main problem Britain, has is from the eastern block (just the ones that are not doing too well like Romania or Albania. Not Croatia, or Slevenia etc) and also Indian/Pakistani people. I don't mind immigrants at all if they have come into the UK legally. I don't really like it when they force themselves through the tunnel or stow away on ships. Though, you can hardly blame them. no one should have to live in the places some of these people do. They all seem to make for Britain as it's been quite lax on immagration laws in the past. But, i ,like the kind of immagrant who earns their right to live here (and other countrys of course) by doing all the essential jobs no one will do. (street sweeper, late night Taxi, newspaper stall worker, etc). And most Albanian and Polish immagrants i've met are very friendly people. Keep em coming i say. (just not too many )

[ September 06, 2002, 17:23: Message edited by: Z-Layrex ]

 

Yeah.. It's a touchy subject, at least here in Europe, with neo-fascists getting a lot of votes in countries such as Italy, Norway, Denmark, France, Austria... on one hand, anyone knows that completely free immigration, letting anyone in, is not realistic: we'd get flooded. On the other hand, any kind of argument against immigration comes off as racist.

Sweden doesn't really suffer from illegal immigration to the EU... most of them get in from north Africa to France, Spain... and they usually stay there, or move on the UK.

In our western world, letting some people in is a pretty good idea: the swedish population is aging rapidly, some experts talk about a complete economic collapse when the goverment funded retirement system gets too expensive. We need young, working people. If someone is motivated to leave their home, their friends and their family in search for something better, then I'd guess that they are also motivated to get a job and work hard.

To me though, immigration as a general is not a problem, it is the consequense of a larger, much more serious problem. The problem I'm talking about is that some people in this world live under poor condition, so poor that they are actually willing to risk it all, leave everything, and try their luck in a container with 25 other people. Why do people do things like that? If you're not happy in your country, that's one thing, but I imagine you'd have to be pretty desperate to risk it all, and leave everything behind.

The solution in the EU so far has been giant barbed barriers all along the southern coast in areas where the immigrants usually get off their vessels. The border patrol has to fish for drowned people almost every day. To me, this does not seem like a lasting solution. People want to get here, and if they are desperate enough, they'll find a way over those barriers as well.

So, the obvious way to solve this is to make those people a little less desperate! How about doing more to support economic development in those countries? How about introducing real free trade, instead of the one way kind we have now...

That one way system works like this: Basically, the World Bank force developing countries to remove all customs and barriers for import. These countries have no choice, since they depend on the World Bank for loans... however, the EU does not depend on the World Bank, and neither does the US, instead they control it. Which means that noone is forcing them to open their borders for import.

To sum it up: the problem isn't immigration, it's income differences and oppression.

 

BTA brings up great points, but here's another:

A close friend of mine teaches in an area of California [sorry can't recall which] where a large portion of the population are illegal Mexican immigrants. The majority of the children she teaches are also 'illegals,' many of which have no or low English skills. While these children do not have the merit to pass the grade they are in, if she fails them [more than 50% of the class] she will be seen as both incompetent, and even worse, a racist. So she stays quiet and allows the illiterate Mexicans to graduate, many of whom fill jobs needed by LEGAL CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Whats wrong with [illegal] immigration? A LOT.

[ September 07, 2002, 04:00: Message edited by: SlimShogun ]

 

I say the only solution our immigration problems in the US has little to do with the US. Well, not the United States of America. The United States of Mexico needs to get its act together. I think it's headed in the right direction, with an actual democratically elected president at the helm, but there is a long way to go. People in Mexico City, the largest city on Earth, are dying of thirst, while the wealthy of the city water lush gardens and wash their cars three times a day. People will stop risking their lives crossing into the US through the deserts and mountains or by evading the Border Patrol as soon as Mexico is no longer a place to be fled from.

[ September 07, 2002, 04:59: Message edited by: The Deviant Mage ]

 

I realy hate Howards sollution to it. Shove 'em in a prison in the middle of the desert and then pay them to go back to there screwed up countries. Its the lamest sollution I can think of.

 

I keep reading about the problems that Italy, Spain, and France have with immigrants coming from North Africa over the Mediterranean. Is this truly a problem or something that's blown out of proportion over here 'cause the media wants something to compare with Mexico?

 

I dont think it is the same quantity as the mexicans in the US but it is still nothing to trifle with. The mexican have a huge land border to their advantage and it must be impossible to control it even a little bit. There is though a huge influx of northern africans in the nations mentioned, many coming illegal.

For me the biggest problem with illegal immigrants is the smugglers...they must truly be the scum of the earth. Taking advantage of desperate persons and killing a few of them in the process. No wonder people are poor when they get here, they have spent all their money on the smugglers, sometimes hundreds of thousands US dollars.

 

On telly the other night they were saying how many Russian immagrants are making across Europe to try to get to Britain (seeing as how the UK used to have the slackest immigration laws). Britain and France have been screaming at Croatia to try to stop these immigrants (which they are doing a good job at seeing how they have out dated equipment). They are all passing through the Croatian Forests. Apparently a few have been shot dead.

 

joacqin, the United States has a similar problem with Chinese immigrants being taken advantage of by organized crime. Not only are they often left broke, but deeply in debt to those who brought them across the Pacific (in a rather horrendous conditions, hidden in incredibly overcrowded cargo ships not meant for human transport). This debt actually leads to them becoming indentured servants, essentially slaves until they pay off their debt.

I'm not sure how prevalent this is these days, but I know that this happened on the west coast a lot, at least until a few years ago.

[ September 09, 2002, 17:43: Message edited by: The Deviant Mage ]