Is it me or is Nalia useless?

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first off she only has 4th level thief ability which makes her useless on traps and locks. but the kicker is shes not really that good of a mage. out of the 2 imeon is better because she has higher wis (which comes in handy with the wish and limited wish spells). plus if you wanted a pure spellcaster you'd go with edwin dispite his hinderance on not using important spells like INDENTIFY! the only stat she beats imoen on is str and its not much of a differance considering neiter recieves any bonuses or penalties. the only thing she has over edwin is an 18 dex which edwin with the right spells doesnt need high dex. also another thing to note is that edwin gets bonus spells for being a specialist which far and away removes his disadvantage of not being able to cast divination spells.

so upon further conlusion after you finish the de'arnesse hold quest kick nalia out of the party if you need a mage that badly until or after you get imoen back, take edwin or even aerie (its always nice to have a few more healing spells around )

[ August 13, 2003, 17:16: Message edited by: Blackthorne TA ]

 

Bah! Here I go!

Let's compare Nalia to Imoen first, since they are both Thieves dualed over to mages.

Both Nalia and Imoen is good, so both fits in a good party. Nali has higher strength, which means that she can carry more things and use better equipment without getting encumbered (I've taken Imoen though all my games, and strength is a major bummer for her...she gets squashed by her armor). Besides, extra baggage space is always nice. Now, one major advantage over Imoen is that you can get Nalia very early in the game, while you get Imoen back about halfway. From this time, if you do all the Chapter 2 quests, Nalia can be bumped up to somewhere around level 15, most likely more (My PC is level 17 when he resqued Imoen, his party is around 15~16) while Imoen stays at 13 when you find her. Sucky? Definitely. By that time, Nalia would probably have a host of useful spells, unlike Imoen who comes with a rather sucky spellbook. And higher WIS? There's potions that enhances Wisdom out there.

Now, Nalia vs Edwin is kind of hard, because Edwin is a pure mage and his amulet gives him +2 Spells per level...but let's go.
You say that Edwin wouldn't need the high dex with the right spells. True. But list me one spell that Edwin can cast Nalia can't. Say Edwin casts Mirror Image? Well, Nalia would have a much higher chance of dodging attacks...plus, she's a mage, so she can't use armor, and nor can Edwin. More often then not your spells would get disrupted. Nalia reduces this chance. Plus, Nalia is a better fighter. She can use short bows to support frontliners, while Edwin is a poor warrior. Plus, Nalia has a decent open locks/detect traps skill, and there are lots of thief skill enhancing items in the game (Gaunlets of Pickpocketing, Ring of Danger Sense, Ring of Pick Locks, Mercykiller Ring, and a couple more), so Nalia has the potential to be far more then a lousy thief, but you can fit the same stuff on Imoen. Like I said, those two cannot be compared since Edwin is by far the best mage in the game, and he is designed to be that way.

Plus, Nalia is cuter then Imoen, IMHO. She uses the mage avatar while Immy uses the thieve's, which makes Immy looks very chubby in comparison...

Edit: My point? Nalia isn't useless. Nobody in this game is, given the right stuff and strategy.

 

Im also using Nalia in my party (consisting of my Kensai (dualled to mage later @ lvl 13) and Nalia)

She is good, just gave her a lot of new spells, so we are taking down Dragons and stuff.. So dont underestimate her.

So I guess its just you then

 

I agree with the other guys in the Nalia issue. She is not useless in fact she can become a very powerfull mage plus the good dexterity she has which makes her good with bows. Maybe it is your strategy that does not fit her abilities.

 

Isnt she one of the mages who can excel (get the highest level) in the game?

IIRC the others are: Edwin and Imoen

 

I think she is far from useless. Right now I am having her in my party. The best feature about her is that you can get her really early and therefore manage her spellbook from the beginning. Sure Edwin has more spell slots, but Nalia is a better all-around addition to a party.

 

@mithrantir imoen and nalia have the same dex and con (17 and 16 respectivly). you all bring up good points when comparing nalia and imoen. HOWEVER, when bringing up edwin. if i remember correctly (i hardly ever use him) edwin gets one bonus spell per level (but it has to be conjuration) thats what makes the differance. there are alot of useful conjuration spells and really in my opinion the only thing in the divination school that i use is identify which edwin makes up for having a high lore.sure imoen or nalia have more hp but in the back of your party edwin is a deadly weapon just sit back and use area or ranged spells on enemys, which is almost ever spell i can think of except shocking grasp (useless, would rather have magic missle), vamipic touch (not completely useless but there are alot better 3rd level spells), and ghoul touch (....). another point i would like to make other than her hp, nalia is a weaker mage. edwin has higher int and also gets that bonus spell i talked about earlier.

@deathmage if i remember correctly nalias ring does the same and gives her fire resistance but not sure or it could be +2 to ac (not sure).

 

I thought I was the only person who preferred Nalia over Imoen. Glad to know I'm not so alone.

Nalia is not at all useless. Her intelligence "barrier" can easily be overcome several ways:

- Machine of Lum the Mad (permanent)
- gold ioun stone (as long as it's equipped, which would be always so may as well be permanent)
- potions of genius (15 turns).

There's your access to 9th level spells and mage HLAs.

As for her thieving skills, all I use her for is disarming traps and picking locks. There are plenty of things out there that augment her thieving abilities.

Give her the tuigan bow, bracers of archery and some decent arrows and you'll discover that she is not only very useful but also very good and very deadly.

BTW, Nalia's ring does not give her any additional spells. It gives her +2 to saves and AC and 50% fire resistance.

Like I have always said, and some here seem to agree, it's not the character; it's how you use them and their abilities.

 

And Edwin gets 3 additional spells per level, 1 from his specialist status, two from his amulet. Like I have stated, Edwin is SUPPOSED to be the best mage in the game. Nalia isn't, but Nalia is more versatile. Her ring is also pretty nifty, forgot to mention that.

So you say that Edwin can sit back and blast opponents with magic. And what's to say Nalia can't do the same? Like I said, Nalia can cast every spell Edwin can (with the exception of some evil-only spells...), and she can also shoot arrows to boot. Gesen Bow, anyone?

Nalia? Weaker mage? Yes, indeed. But Nalia isn't just a mage. She's a Thief/Mage. She can shoot arrows. She has more HP. She has higher AC. She has a nifty ring.

 

I do not disagree with that but Imoen can join you in the middle of the game while Nalia is basically from the beggining. I have them both in my group and i never use Edwin because he is evil, I only play rangers and fighter and mages of good alliance. Anyway for me, Edwin maybe better as a mage but these two girls are more usefull if you know what i mean

 

They both have thief levels, but the difference is that Imoen is a thief/mage and Nalia is a mage with 4 thief levels. She doesn't lose anything except 5000 XP for thief level 4. This means slightly more HP, marginally better thac0 and the ability to use bows (for some reason I like them better than slings) and all one-handed swords. Now, what is better: some filthy staff or whimpy dagger or a shiney katana?

If you look at her as a mage with some little bonus rather than a poor thief/mage, everything seems nicer.

Another thing is that you don't have to choose one of them, you can take both, as I always do. Sometimes I also take Aerie and then there are three mages - quite a nice grill party, if you know what I mean

Edit: The Deck of Many Things may raise the user's INT if he's a mage, if you're interested.

 

@chevalier

Are you saying you use Nalia up front with a Katana?? Or even with a bow for that matter. Edwin, Nalia, Imoen...it's all the same, they should all be used to throw spells. The only thing Nalia or Immy have up on Edwin is the thief skills, and IMHO it doesn't even make up for Edwin's extra spells. Nalia is a better mage than Immy but not by much. I'd take Immy because she is a bit better thief and if you're gonna go with a thief/mage type take the one who has a bit more power in it, the spell difference is miniscule. But I'd take Edwin by far over any of them. One, because he's a better mage, period. Two, because I usually play an evil fighter/thief so Nalia and Imoen's thief skills become worthless compared to my own and he's evil of course. But honestly, I've started not playing with mages as much because I feel they are inhibited by party members. They work much better on their own. But that's getting off topic, in the end I'd take Imoen over Nalia: if you're going to throw some thief in at least throw in some thief that can be helpful. Neither of them should be throwing arrows or swinging swords. But Edwin tops them all for his massive amount of spells. My 2 cents at least.

 

I kept Nalia through SoA/ToB game and she was powerful. She starts out a wimp but ends up a supermage. I have Yoshimo for thief until his betrayal, then Imoen is back. I got a kick out of Nalia telling Imoen "I'm a Master Mage just like you". Actually she was higher.

[ August 14, 2003, 21:16: Message edited by: Nakia Nightshadow ]

 

Nalia's signet ring seems like a minor version of ring of Gaxx to me, kind of cool!
I don't use her a lot, but I still think she is up to the task, depending on the other npcs you choose, Like if you don't have enough warriors in your party, maybe Nalia will be a good addition, as she can use gesen shortbow. But if your party is already warrior heavy, maybe Edwin with his more magic skills helps more.

 

@skywind usually i take 3 warriors at any given time. Jaheria, (i love her ), either keldorn or korgan (depending on alingnment), and either my protagonist or mazzy. IMO aerie has too few hp especially in ToB, so i almost never take except at the beginning. keldorn has better saves than Minsc but not as many HP. also he is a little weaker in the STR department (nothing a good girdle cant handle). The reason i take such a Fighter heavy party is for balance. if im not playing evil my protagonist is some sort of mage dirivitive. if evil, korgan, edwin, and viconia are AWESOME! I believe in My own opinion that Yoshimo is way too powerful at the beginning of the game and i am thankful that he dies. However, in an evil game he is sort of a nessessity considering that 2 out of the 3 theives are good alignment. So basically you are stuck with Jan, which isnt a horrible thing.

 

You know, you should put up a spoiler when you said the thing 'bout Yoshi. Not everyone knows about him.

 

If your party is fighter heavy, then it's not balanced. Balance indicates all sides being equal, but I digress.

I don't think I would describe Nalia's ring as a minor ring of Gaxx. It's more like a Ring of Protection +2 w/ fire resistance. I certainly wouldn't put Nalia up front with my fighters, but not all attacks come from the front. Nalia with a decent longsword or katana (Celestial Fury comes to mind) and she's decent in melee. Notice I said decent; not great. I still very much prefer her slinging arrows. Where she truly comes into her own is during timestop. Buffs + disabling spells (greater malison, hold person, breach, etc) + timestop + numerous arrows (biting/acid/etc) = at least 2 fatalities.

 

@deathmage you are right but i would think almost everyone knows about that by now anyway (being that this is a ToB message board).

@spelladonna true but the same can be said for imoen except the ring part.

 

Acutally, I see Nalia's ring as more of a hindrance than a bonus. Sure it is a nice bonus at the beginning, but as the game progresses you can find better rings. And since you cannot take it off, Nalia has only one ring slot. Too bad.
That said, I still believe her to be a good NPC.

@ pyroashani: sorry to point this out, but you started the thread by stating that Nalia was useless. Now you are basically agreeing that she is about as good as Imoen...
Maybe I am splitting hairs here, but could it be that we managed to partially convince you with these posts ?

 

@kralizek

You are right.........sort of. You got me to believe thats shes not useless but i still think Imoen is better, even if you dont get her back for a long while. I'd still rate her last among the mages becuase Imeon has her uses as a thief; however i still think Edwin is the best mage of all of them.

You know what screw it I'm going to make a poll.