Is it really this bleak in France?

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Not being anywhere near there and having no idea who made this video, I figured I would ask some of our European members as to what their thoughts were.

 

Oh no the rich kids are leaving France! Clearly they are the best and the brightest, as this video says seconds in, and shouldn't have to be concerned about the undeserving, not the "best and brightest" poor kids.

I've thought about this a lot since the days when we used to go back and forth on this constantly. I still can't buy into the "just world" theory I see as being the underlying premise here- that those with fortune have it because they deserve it, and those who don't have fortune inflict it upon themselves. It doesn't make any sense on a global or national level any more than it does on an individual level, and I don't think it does most people any good.

 

Apparently it's a real thing, rich people wanting to leave France due to high taxes. I don't really see the problem in that. Higher incomes are taxed higher in the Netherlands as well. They tend to move to Belgium as taxes are lower there. Or to Monaco if they're really rich.

The piece itself is rather suggestive. It seems to be made by someone or some group that believes capitalism is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Anyway, if the rich want to leave France, who cares. They've got enough money to pack up and leave if they want.
Although it depends on how quickly the taxes rise with income. It happens in the Netherlands that you increase a little bit in income, you enter the next higher scale of taxes and you end up with a net decrease in income. If this happens too quickly in France, it would certainly demotivate to try and find a job there.

A problem would also be if companies start to leave, as this would affect jobs. Unfortunately they have a culture of going on strikes over everything and nothing. Not quite as bad as in Belgium, but in a time of international corporations, it might stop companies from investing in production in France.

 

Well obviously the rich don't want to become poor because of taxes. How high are the rates? I thought it was really telling when the "tire guy" basically said "We aren't going to continue to pay high wages for very little work" and is planning (or did) close the plant. Are things like this common? I can't help but think that from a worker's point of view, they are cutting off their nose to spite their face. I know nobody likes large corporations, but they do supply lots of jobs and therefore are necessary.

Tal mentioned that it is hard to move around. I thought with the EU it would be easier to move. I know we have a lot of movement in the US with young people moving to parts of the country where the jobs are (well except for certain ethnic minorities). Are there actual obstacles to moving or is it more "fear of the unknown" that is keeping people where they are?

Being a conservative, I just can't fathom how a society can survive as a welfare state. Someone has to pay the taxes in order to provide the benefits that people are demanding. If the money, the jobs, the innovators, etc. leave won't the place by definition just collapse? Isn't this what kind of happened to Spain when they kicked all of the Jews and Muslims out? Has Spain ever recovered?

Hasn't it already been proven that without incentive nothing gets done?

 

Travel around the EU or Schengen countries (to separate things, with different limitations for different things, though with overlap) is more or less free. As a tourist.

If you actually want to settle somewhere, you'll usually have to show that either you already have a job outside of that country to sustain yourself, or that you have a job in the country itself.

Alternatively, you might apply as living together with a resident of that country.

The precise requirements may differ per country, but you can expect something similar in most countries. You might come as a tourist and try to find a job, then register yourself in that country as a resident (not as a citizen, normally). Except that for the job you might need a local bank account and for that you would need some proof that you are living somewhere, in which case it becomes a vicious circle because you can't get the proof without getting a job.

I suppose you could try to apply abroad for a job through the internet, but as someone fresh from school without working experience, your chances'd be pretty slim.

There are definitely more obstacles than someone moving around in the US as a US citizen.

 

Technically Spain entered its golden age after the reconquista and the expulsion of moors and jews and reigned as a European hegemony for a century or so afterwards. I doubt those events had much impact in the country's decline other than being an example of general narrow mindedness in that country.

As for France, I'm sure Hollande's policies have had an impact but the country was not doing that great under Sarkozy either. Hollande seems to have taken it to the extreme though and his popularity is sinking accordingly.

Interestingly enough the fastest growth in Europe is currently in Sweden which I'm sure you'd qualify as a "welfare state". I would agree though that a lot of European countries are currently stagnating and new policies as well as new entrepreneurship is certainly needed in order to reach new growth.

EDIT: I'm not sure I agree there are a lot more obstacles in moving within the Schengen area. I've had multiple friends move to Sweden or Germany for work without much fuss. Of course there are the basics of finding an appartment, opening a new bank account etc. but nothing really major obstacles outside of a few adminstrative issues. I think the greatest obstacles are language and cultural difficulties. If you can't speak German it's a lot more difficult to move to Germany.