Kensai/Thief an impossibility?

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Hey there!

I want to ask if anyone of you has/had a kensai/thief combination. I have a kensai/mage, which also could´ve been a k/t - however, that choice was dimmed when I was multiclassing at lvl 12. So I thought I didn´t have the right prerequisites (although 19,12,19,19,13,19 seemed good enough), so I created a new kensai with all 18 (used debug command), and then again - nothing!

So I want to ask if anyone actually has one - but it seems one half-legal way is to do it in the shadowkeeper, at least for me.

Maybe it´s just blocked because the Kensai would then be really destructive with thieves´ use all items HLA.

So I´d like to hear (well, read your expiriences with it.

See ya!

 

im heard someone talking about their kensai/thief a while back but i dont know if they shadowkeepered it or not. anyway if you want a kensai/thief you can always SK him

 

Well it seems that it´s the only possible way for k/t - but that would´ve been the strongest fighter in the game - like everyone with "Use all items" ability.

 

Needs to be human, 18 Strength and 17 Dex I believe. I'm not sure what else is reqired.

 

I've done it a couple times. IIRC, it's has to be 15 STR and 17 DEX.

 

Check your alignment. Thieves cannot be Lawful Good or Chaotic Good, so your kensai should be neither of those also.

 

Just SK some levels off him and give him UAI.

 

If he is human, STR 15 and Dex 17, you can dualclass a Kensai to Thief.

If you are not able to do that, you are doing something wrong.

 

I have to agree that the class is certainly possible. I've made them in the past.

As has been said there are four requirements:

1. Must be human
2. Must meet dual-classing requirements (15 minimum primary stat of your original class, and 17 minimum primary stat for the class you're changing to) in addition to any other requirements for the class (for example a druid also needs a 15 in charisma). In this case, it's a minimum of 15 strength and 17 dexterity.
3. The dual-class must be a valid multi-class option (by class, not kit). A kensai-thief dual-class is considered a fighter-thief, which is certainly a valid multi-class.
4. No alignment conflicts. However, I think the only alignment that is not allowed for a thief is lawful good, although all lawful alignments may be disallowed for a thief. If you're chaotic good or neutral good though, you should be good to go.

 

Since I assume you have written it in the (standard) order of Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha, the 12 in Dex obviously is the bummer.

 

For all bg2 dual-classing, the human character must have his prime requisite in the first class (in this case, Kensai) must be at least a 15 or greater.

For the class you wish to dual-class to (in this case, thief) you must have at least a 17 or greater in the class prime requisite.

A thief can have any alignment but lawful good, unless you have a demihuman multiclass character, which bg2 does not allow them to have lawful alignments.

Hope this helps....

 

Ooooh noo! How can my memory suffer so?

well a) it was actually 19,19,12 (swapped DEX for CON) and most importantly :

b) I am of a lawful good alingnment - thanks for reminding me thieves can´t be lawful good. Damn how could I forget this when I played for thief about a month ago?

Thanks again! (heh at least now I can create a vessel of destruction when I´ll be playing again )

 

Actually I think you're overestimating the power of the Kensai/Thief. IMO a mc Fighter/Thief is at least as good.

 

But when you get UAI, doesn't that cancel out the negatives for being a Kensai?

 

When it all boils down to it the Kensai-Thief (with fighter HLA's) is just a multi-class Fighter-Thief with a Kit. While this makes him the stronger of the two, game-wise he's just not worth the effort of making, unless you legitimately solo.

 

Yes it does.
I just don't think it's enough to make it better than a mc F/T.

When are you going to dual?
- Ken-9. Much too weak even with the kensai bonus.
(Modified THAC0 = 9)

- Ken-12. Acceptable fighter.
(Modified THAC0 = 5)

- Ken-13. Waiting for the extra 0.5 attacks is perhaps the best option. This means 1.25m xp as a Kensai and then 0.88m xp as a thief before reactivating the kensai class. That's 2,130,000 xp. In a party that's a really long time.
(Modified THAC0 = 4)

- Ken-15. This puts the character's THAC0 just one point worse than the the mc F/T.
(Modified THAC0 = 1)
There are two problems. As always no Fighter HLA's for the Ken/Thi and here the time spent with only one class active is becoming outright painful: 1.75 + 1.32 = 3.07m xp.
For this character it takes 4,830,000 xp to get UAI.

Theoretically you could wait with dualling until after you get fighter HLA's but then you won't get Use Any Item until after an extreme amount of xp and you'll also have to play with only one class active for an extremely long time.
Example: Ken-21/Thi-31. That gives you two fighter HLA's, base THAC0 0 and +7 in kensai bonus. Very powerful!
It will however take this character 5,890,000 xp to reactivate the kensai class. As far as I'm concerned that puts this character in the realm of the soloist and not in a party.

Advantage multiclass:
- HLA's earlier
- Fighter HLA's
- More HLA's
- Better THAC0
- Constant use of both classes
- Racial bonus (eg. Elf gets +1 with Long Sword and Bow)
- Can use missile weapons and wear armor, gauntlets and bracers without having to wait some 4 million xp (or more) for UAI.

Advantage Ken/Thi
- Advanced Weapon Specialization
- More HP's
- 2 point AC bonus
- Damage bonus (+1 dmg/3 kensai levels)
- Speed factor bonus (1/4 kensai levels)
- Kai

I just made this decision for my own character. In my current game I'm playing an evil Fighter/Thief and I gave Kensai/Thief serious consideration before deciding on the F/T. The F/T is so much easier to play.

[ August 08, 2004, 11:27: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

 

You must not forget the Backstab bonus! Hide in Shadows and so on!

A Ken/Thi kan backstab for Serious amounts of dammage, Attack Much Faster, and in that way Do Way more dammage, i would definatly go for KenThi

 

Both get the same backstab modifier (x5).

Only the first attack is a backstab (unless you use HLA Assassination) and the weapons you normally use are very fast, but I agree that better weapon speed is an advantage.

The F/T gets more attacks per round, so I'd say the damage output per round is similar.

If you're questing to achieve the highest backstab possible then Kensai/Thief is the way to go, but the F/T will give you less headaches.

 

you can easily get a 5+ attacks per round with KenThi IIRC, and the dammage output well be about the same, the backstab will be Crazy,
just go for Katana/scimitar/shortsword.


Balle

EDIT: oh and if you use the HL Backstab, with a improved speed, it is possible to do 600+ dammage in 1 round

 

Earl Grey summarized F/T multi vs. K/T dual nicely; at high levels they are comparable in power but reflect different styles of play. F/T can easily solo and is extremely versatile in a party, and K/T is best-suited for a party of four or less (to level up quicker) IMHO.

F/T grows in power steadily and is very easy to play. K(15)/T is weak only until he regains his Kensai abilities; then you're basically a Kensai again with thieving abilities. THAC0 is not really a problem with the abundance of weapons, items, and strength modifiers. Once you get UAI and Assasinate, the fun really begins!

F/T can outdamage K/T when backstabbing because of Critical Strike/Smite, but otherwise K/T will get consistently higher backstabs with Kai. Assasin(20)/Fighter beats them both, but you pay a *heavy* price to get there.

Using the unnerfed (BG1) proficiency table, Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization, Staff of the Ram +6, 24 STR, Assasinate, and Improved Haste, K(15)/T will average over 1300 damage in one round (8 attacks). F/T will do over 1000.