Kensai vs Kensai/Thief

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What do you guys think will be more powerful?

I'm going to bed now (after opening some similar topics), so I won't post my POV yet, but I'm hoping there'll be some posts here when I awake .

 

Kensai/Thief, because of the HLA of the thief and the backstab-kai shot combo....

 

Damn it, this afternoon, I typed a pretty long message with my POV (and doubts and stuff). Then it said I couldn't reply before someone else had replied, so I had to edit my previous message. But still, I lost everything I had typed .

Anyway, what it came down to:
With two handed swords (grandmaster) the straight kensai got -19 THAC0 and the Kensai/Thief got -9. So with a +3 sword (which carsomyr easily is) that would be -12. That means that he could hit anything with an AC of -12 95% of the time. The same goes for the kensai, since a roll of 0 still always misses.
- This would mean that the straight kensai has no real advantage over the MC.

The Kensai gets an extra bonus of +9 to damage. So with each hit he'll do 9 more damage than the K/T.
- point to the kensai

The kensai gets 6 more kais than the K/T. Big deal, like you would want to use kai 10 times a day.
- doesn't matter

The kensai gets -10 to speed factor while the K/T only gets -4. That means the kensai will give all weapons a 0 speed factor and will start very soon in a round. But first of all, the Carsomyr has a speed factor of 4 (so it'd be reduced to 0) and second of all. Initiative is only nice for disrupting mages and with -4, a sword and more attacks, you'll probably get to go first anyway.
- doesn't really matter

So much for the kensais advantages. No for the K/T's advantages:

Thieving skills, backstab and Use any item

This means the K/T's AC is going to be a lot better. I'm not going to do any numbers here, but this guy can wear armor and helmets. His resistances will probably be better too.

Summary:
Kensai pros:
+9 to damage extra (compared to the K/T)
fighter HLA's

K/T pros:
better AC
better overal equipment
thief skills
backstab
thief HLA's

Since I'm primarily concerned with the characters tank potential, I don't care a lot about the thief skills.
The kensai with 5 attacks per round will do 45 points more damage than the K/T.
That's a lot, but if you consider that the K/T can do a backstab at x5, that'll be a lot more.

Now for the fighter HLA's:
It's true that the K/T won't be able to get them and that they're very powerful. A kensai would definitely be more powerful in the tougher battles if he survives with his high AC.

I think the K/T would be a more useful character overal. The kensai however, would be more powerful if he would fully utilize his HLA's.

 

Well, a kensai-thief is significantly more versatile than a kensai, though I strongly recommend a multiclassed on anyway (yes, I had to say that ). Dualclassing isn't that much of an advantage actually, especially when you go to ToB I'd take care to level up to kensai lvl-13 or 15 before going for thief.

Kensais are handicapped because to the end of ToB, that is at higher level in the epic 30+s or so, the THACO is capped and the pure fighter generally looses some of his advantages compared to SoA like levels.

Insofar dualclassing makes sense as a way to improve your chars abilities. However, a multiclassed kensai-thief, though restricted to ** proficiency and enjoying less proficiency slots than a dualclassed one (iirc) gains the high level abilities of both classes.
However, a kensai is great to play too, I catually can't really decide on what's really *better*.

Just my two cents.

 

To bad you can't actually have a kensai/thief multiclass...

 

Kensai=stronger, more hit points!(likely)