Kits, Kits and then Some More Kits

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Initial Disclaimer: I had initially intended to split this poll into multiple question, by character class. Evidently, we can't do this anymore . Sorry for the mile long list.

This was certainly one of my favorite aspects in SoA/ToB. That said, I cannot help but feel that some of the kits are wildly unbalanced (either positively or negatively). So here's the poll. My personal overview would be as such.

I think Paladins probably got the best kits. There's really no bad option there for paladins (although some are better than others). You also get a lot of variety out of the thief kits. I can't find anything bad to say about the cleric kits, as there's no real con for taking one of them - other than the fact that you'd be playing a single classed cleric, which I guess does count as a pretty big con. On the other end of the spectrum, you have bards and rangers, who have some seriously lacking kits.

For my convenience, I'm throwing in barbarian and monk as fighter kits, even though they technically aren't, and I'm placing sorcerers and wild mages in with all the specialist mages. (One could argue that specialist mages aren't really kits either, but hey, it's my poll.)

OK, if you know what all the kits do, you can jump right to the poll. Here's a quick cheat sheet if you forget with the pro's and cons:

Bard Kits:

Blade:

Pro - offensive spin, defensive spin, 3 *s in two weapon fighting
Con - 1/2 lore, 1/2 pick pockets, bard song doesn't improve with levels

Jester:

Pro - bard song affect enemies (save at +4 or be confused) instead of aiding allies
Con - You're a jester.

Skald:

Pro - +1 to hit and damage, bard song improves part's chance to hit, damage, AC, and eventually gives immunity to fear, stun, and confusion
Con - 1/4 pick pockets

Cleric Kits:

No cons for these, so I'll just list the additional spells you get.

Priest of Talos (evil): Lightning Bolt, Storm Shield

Priest of Lathander (good): Hold Undead, Boon of Lathander

Priest of Helm (neutral): True Sight, Seeking Sword

Druid Kits:

Shapeshifter:

Pro: Shapeshift to werewolf, then greater werewolf at levels 13+
Con: Cannot wear armor , you're a single classed druid

Totemic Druid:

Pro: Summon various Spirit Animals
Con: Cannot shapeshift, you're a single classed druid

Avenger:

Pro: Additional shapeshifting options (sword spider, baby wyvern, fire salamander), gains mage spells (chromatic orb, web, lightning bolt, improved invisibility, chaos, chain lightning)
Con: -2 to starting strength and constitution, oh and you're still an single classed druid

Fighter Kits:

Berserker:

Pro: Enrage (+2 bonus to hit, damage, and AC, immune to charm, hold, fear, maze, imprisonment, stun and sleep)
Con: winded after berserking, only can be proficient in ranged weapons.

Wizard Slayer:

Pro: cumulative 10% chance of spell failure per hit, 2% magic resistance per level
Con: no magic items other than weapons or armor (so no rings, amulets, potions, etc)

Kensai:

Pro: +1 hit and damage per 3 levels, kai once per 4 levels (all attacks do max damage)
Con: no missile weapon, no armor (including bracers)

Barbarian:

Pro: Faster movement, immune to backstab, rage (different than berserker - +4 Strength and Constitution, -2 penalty to AC, same immunities), resistance to physical damage, d12 (instead of d10) for hitpoints
Con: No plate or full plate armor, cannot go past specialized in weapon proficiencies.

Monk (I could write a page - I'll try to highlight):

Pro: unarmed attack, stunning blow, fists strike as magic weapons (up to +3 eventually), Lay on Hands, Quivering Palm, 3% magic resistance per level
Con: No armor, can only use one handed thief weapons (if you chose the use a weapon other than hands).

Specialist Mages: all have the pro of one additional spell per level, and a con of not being able to cast spells from the opposition school. Here's the list:

Abjurors have Alteration as opposition school
Conjurors have Divination as opposition school
Diviners have Conjuration/Summoning as opposition school
Enchanters have Invocation/Evocation as opposition school
Illusionists have Necromancy as opposition school
Invokers have Enchantment and Conjuration as opposition schools
Necromancers have Illusion as opposition school
Transmuters have Abjuration and Necromancy as opposition schools

Wild Mages have no opposition school, and have access to wild magic (which is more of a pro than a con IMO), spells can are cast (randomly) up to 5 levels higher or lower than mage's actual level.

Sorcerer:

Pro: may pre-select which spells you have access to, no need of managing spell book, greater access to spells you learn
Con: limited number of spells per spell level, decreased versatility

Paladin Kits:

Cavalier:

Pro: +3 to hit and damage to demons and dragons, immune to fear and poison, 20% resistance to acid, fire
Con: cannot use missile weapons

Inquisitor:

Pro: cast Dispel Magic and twice character level, cast True Sight, immune to charm and hold
Con: Cannot lay on hands, cast cleric spells, or turn undead

Undead Slayer:

Pro: +3 to hit and damage to undead, immune to hold and level drain
Con: Cannot lay on hands

Ranger Kits:

Archer:

Pro: +1 to hit and damage with missile weapons every 3 levels, called shot once per 4 levels
Con: Can only gain proficiency in melee weapons, no metal armors

Beastmaster:

Pro: +15% stealth ability, Cast Animal Summoning I, II, III and Find Familiar
Con: Cannot use metal weapons or armor

Stalker:

Pro: +20% stealth ability, can backstab (max x3 damage), can cast Haste, Protection from Normal Missiles, Minor Spell Deflection
Con: Cannot wear metal armor

Thief Kits:

Assassin:

Pro: +1 to hit and damage, may use poison once per 4 levels, maximum backstab multiplier x7
Con: Only 15 thief ability points to distribute per level

Bounty Hunter:

Pro: +15% set traps ability, use of special traps
Con: Only 20 thief ability points to distribute per level

Swashbuckler:

Pro: +1 to hit, damage and AC per 5 levels, may gain specialization in any weapon useable by thieves, 3 *s in two weapon style, full 25 thief ability points to distribute per level
Con: no backstab multiplier (i.e., backstabs do standard attack damage)

 

My favorites:

The thief kits. The difference in power between a plain thief and a Bounter Hunter/Assassin/Swashbuckler is immense, not to mention these kits have abilities that can actually sway how easy your early/mid/late game will be.

The bard kits. Offensive Spin and Defensive Spin (Kai + Haste and +10 free AC), the Jester's song (ignores spell resistance and spell protections - brings the saying "the more, the merrier" to a whole new level of awesome) and the Skald's song (similar, but reversed).

Totemic Druid. I'm not a fan of shapeshifting, and since summoning is my fallback tactic this is one of my favorite kits. The spirit animals are little more than fodder late game though.
Single class druids are underrated. We already know that they make excellent fodder summoners. They also get Call Woodlands Beings , Conjure Fire Elemental early, the Insect Plague line of spells makes druids the bane of all other casters in BG2 and finally Nature's Beauty - the spell that blinds on a successful save. The latter is like 80% of the reason why one particular battle added by the Tactics mob is so notorious.

Wild Mages are just plain OP. And fun too.

 

Another con for Skald -- pros are completely negated by HLA's.

 

That con is the flipside of a pro: thanks to his song, a skald's conjured images are powerful long before he gets HLA's.

 

True, but the same goes for the Jester. His song is the only thing that could be considered an advantage over the vanilla bard, and with the HLA he loses that too and is just left with the disadvantages. The only bard kit that doesn't lose it's special ability through that HLA is the blade. Which I guess makes it the best bard kit, but I still don't like it very much.

As for fighters, I like the monk and barbarian most, and in that order. The actual fighter kits are good, but mostly as part of a dual class. Berserker/Cleric is a nice one, Kensai/Thief or Kensai/Mage is pretty good too. Wizard slayer is pretty awful unless you dual to thief and even then it's not that good.

Monk fists are counted as +4 at lvl 25 - they're not stuck at +3.

Palladins I'd have to go with inquisitor.

For arcane casters, I'd go with sorcerers. One advantage they have over mages (also specialised mages) is that they have access to more high level spells more early. I don't remember exactly at which level it occurs, but I think sorcerers get 6 lvl 9 spells at lvl 20 or 21, while I think specialist mages get their 5th at lvl 27 only. Wild mages are a lot of fun to play too, though. I don't really see why you'd want a specialist mage when you can choose a wild mage too.

Cleric kits are quite good, but they're still best as part of a dual- or multiclass.

Thief kits are nice for variety and even a plain thief isn't so bad. I don't really see the point of a swashbuckler, though. I prefer a fighter/thief dual- or multiclass.

 

Paladin is my favorite single class and I like all three kits though my favorite would be the Cavalier followed by the Inquisitor.
Second would be the Druid, though the kits are a bit lackluster (I prefer Fighter/Druid). Personally I like the Avenger most for his added spells and the ability to fight as a sword spider, which is fun ^^.
My favorite single class mage would be unsurprisingly the sorceror.
As Fighter, both, the Berserker and Kensai are very good (but more so to be dualed to Cleric or Mage later on).

Last but not least the Blade is an extremely fun Kit, he is basically a Fighter/Mage with the ability to get UAI as HLA.

 

I really like the Wild Mage. Haven't played one in forever but it's a very fun class to pick. Except when you happen to get the occassional "loses all gold" surge and you haven't saved in a while...

 

Jesters don't need to pick the HLA. The high level song of their conjured images causes confusion, sleep and slow. So your enemies are suddenly disabled, prone (no AC bonus from dodge/dexterity) and take penalties to movement, number of attacks, AC and THAC0 - with no saving throw bonus and these effects ignore anything except outright immunity. And each enemy monster must make a save against these effects once per bard image every round.

Compare Skalds boosting party abilities as early as SoA to the dilemma of when best to dual-class a Kensai.

The Blade has always been something of an overpowered kit (in terms of granted abilities/bonuses). It's also rife with bugs and cheesy tactics. In particular, Defensive Spin + free movement and Oil of Speed + Offensive Spin (yes, they stack).

 

I like the Wild Mage and Undead Hunter kits.

I've dual-classed from a cleric kit and I think you can do the same druid kits to fighter so I don't see the problem with that.

I've also done wizard slayer to pile on enemy spellcasters with as many hits as possible sometimes-even tripped up Melissan on occasion.

 

Druids can dual class, but only to fighters. One of the dual classing rules is that whatever you are dualling into must be a valid multi-class combination as well, and since the only druid multi-class is the F/D, that's the only thing you can dual into. (Although a thief wouldn't be bad - you'd just have to rely on daggers and scimitars for backstabbing.)

 

I'm glad to hear another person liking the Skald. I agree that his song is not such a great advantage once you get to ToB, when any bard can do what he does, but I do like Skalds.

I don't really have much of an opinion on clerics, simply because none of them have any disadvantage that would not already be present by playing a cleric. Moreover, your choice of kits is directly impacted by your alignment choice. (And sure, there are other classes that have alignment restrictions, but those restrictions apply to all of the kits.)

My favorite fighter kit is definitely the berserker. Not being able to go past a single proficiency point in ranged weapons is IMO, not much of a restriction at all. There are adequate amounts of thrown weapons if you really feel the need to use something at range, and the benefits of the berserker rage ability speak for themselves. When you encounter a lich, just stick your tongue out when he tries to imprison you.

For mage specialists, it's a little different than other picks, because you are really picking what you'll be missing out on rather than what you'll be getting. I agree that Conjuror is a solid choice because there aren't many divination spells that you'd like to have access to that you couldn't get from another character (like identify or true sight). I could never play an Invoker, just because they give up to much. Enchantments and conjurations are a huge set of spells that they miss out on. Similarly, invocations are also a set of spells I like, so I wouldn't want to be an Enchanter either. I don't see any upside to the Transmuter. You lose Abjuration AND Necromancy. If you had instead picked an Illusionist, you'd only lose Necromancy and not Abjuration. So you don't gain anything over the Illusionist, and have to give up more. I think I also like Illusionists because gnomes can multi-class and still be a specialist. So for me, it's more a list of ones I wouldn't want - the Invoker, Transmuter, and Enchanter.

Paladins - I too like the Inquisitor the best, but as I said, I think all are very solid kits. Even the Undead Hunter - immunity to level drain without needing an item rocks.

Druids - to be honest, other than Cernd, I've never played a single classed druid. I've played Jaheira, and the only druid I have ever played as a PC was also a multi-class. That said, the reason this is so is I find nothing particularly appealing about any of the druid kits.

Rangers - the Beastmaster is abysmal. So that one can be eliminated immediately for me. I have plenty of means of summoning animals, monsters, elementals, and a dozen or so other things that there is nothing there that appeals to me. With Archers and Stalkers, it's as much a decision about play style than anything. I don't mind the archers, but you have to be in the mood to play that kind of character. I have never made a Stalker, because I can take along Valygar whenever I want one.

With thief the decision is entirely about playstyle. While that is true to an extent for all kit choices, none of them are as stark as it is with the thieves. (All the paladin kits are essentially front line fighters. All the clerics have similar play styles. All the ranger kits have the same armor restrictions.) But with the three thief kits, none of them play the same way. The swashbuckler is essentially a fighter-thief. Without the multiplier for backstabbing, he'll probably never use it. The assassin is on the other end of the spectrum. He's going to be backstabbing a lot, and adding poison to his weapon to up the damage even more. The two are polar opposites - one for extended melee engagement, with the other dealing single hit kill shots. The Bounty Hunter is the in between one, as there is tactical use in being able to throw traps. That said, once HLAs come on line, all thieves can get better traps than the Bounty Hunter, so I'd say it's the weakest of the three kits.

 

Barbarian. That weapon damage reduction is too good to pass up, any melee oriented character is done for.

 

Don't forget though the bounty hunter traps are special in that they can be "tossed" from range and they offer control such as mazing everything and then each enemy will come out at different times. That is great control that even the HLA traps cannot do. I do believe that the bounty hunter is considered the best thief for solo work due to these benefits.

Still these are my favorites...

Fighter-monk okay if that does not count I will go with berserker since it just rocks. Simple though but that is what you want from a fighter sometimes.

Cleric-ranger cleric or it does not matter as they really are mostly the same. Lathandar gives extra attacks but even that isn't that big of a deal.

Mage-conjurer no contest. Sorcs get a special mention just for being fun.

Ranger-archer. Just wish it could be any range weapon for all the benefits so I would have like slings and throwing weapons but sadly no.

paladin-inquistor though only just barely. I can't tell you how many times keldorn has saved me a reload with dispel magic.

bard-blade though if the game allowed singing and fighting at the same time then skald would be it easily.

thief-swashbuckler for me. It is just classic and it makes you so effective in general. It is too bad it won't let you specialize in ranged weapons though even then it makes some terrifying thief archers.

 

Yeah, the cleric kits are pretty much similar - they all are similar in that they give you something and cost you nothing, but IMO, saying a ranger-cleric isn't really picking a cleric kit.

 

Bard : Blade. I like soloing so I don't use songs very much and blades have some very nice bonuses.

Cleric : Priest of Lathander I suppose, though none of the kits really stand out all that much. I always felt they needed more variety.

Druid : Totemic, the animal companions make the early game a breeze and blow the useless werewolf shape shift out of the water. Avenger is certainly a contender but as I like to solo, summoning creatures is a pretty big boon.

Fighter : This one is harder, they're all really nice options. Wizard slayer is out because ... it's a wizard slayer. Barbarian, I think that can be discounted as a Ranger/Cleric does what the barbarian does but better. Kensais main plus is turning them into thieves but that's not enough for me after my last playthrough. So that leaves Berserker and Monk. Berserker gets great immunities and makes a great dual class. Monk gets great melee damage and complete magic immunity. I think it has to go to Monk as they have that magic resistance plus a myriad of other things plus they can go into any party and not take up equips.

Mage : Sorcerer! They are pure unadulterated power. I just don't like the way mages memorise spells. The specialist mages are silly, there's something like three which aren't massive steps down in power and while those three improve on the mage formula it's just not that impressive when compared to a sorcerer. Special mention goes to Wild Mage, very powerful but the random chance is not something I could really get behind.

Paladin : Inquisitor, the other kits are good of course, all the paladins are nice and tough but the inquisitor is pretty brutal. The toughest enemies are mages and the inquisitor has an 'ignore mages' button. While the other kits are good they just don't have the ignore button.

Ranger : Archer probably, I just like the feel of it more. Plinking away at range with all those cute little ranged weapons.

Thief : I am ashamed to say I only finished my first Bounty Hunter solo game a few days back. But by God that is a powerful class! Bounty hunter HAS to win. Any enemy in the game can be removed from the field of play along with anyone in a fireball's radius from them. When they come back there will be traps waiting and a thief ready to backstab. And then once you've killed the one or two who returned you can prepare for the next one or two until you've killed all ten of them without having to worry in the least about getting hurt. It's absolutely obscene. I used to love Kensai 13 -> thiefs for those brutal backstabs and melee capacity but bounty hunters have so many options available at pretty much zero cost or downtime.

 

You could do a Lathander kit cleric that duals to a ranger.




Samael

I think you're right that Bounty Hunters are underrated.

But you missed the point of wild mages-they are fun.

I laughed the first time my wild mage dropped a cow on an enemy.

 

I miss BG1 cow kill. BG2 made it party unfriendly which made it harder to use...

 

I only ever felt that class specialization was really worth it for paladins. Don't get me wrong having an evoker or a cleric of talos is fun and all, but nothing compares to how gamebreakingly strong the paladin kits are.

For example, every playthrough where I want an indominable main character I just make a cavalier. Makes dragon and demon fights easy and basically makes enemies that rely on fear(like wraiths) become miles less threatening.

I have to admit though, I've never tried most kits, especially the warriors kits always seemed lackluster to me.

 

Huh? Wild mages were introduced in ToB, as far as I'm aware BG1 never even had kits. How did you get dropping cows in BG1 then?