Klorox's sorcerers' spell list: please comment

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Level 1
1)Chromatic Orb
2)Identify
3)Magic Missile
4)Spook
5)Shield

Level 2
1)Melf's Acid Arrow
2)Mirror Image
3)Resist Fear (might take this one out, but what for?)
4)Vocalize
5)Web

Level 3
1)Flame Arrow
2)Skull Trap
3)Slow
4)Melf's Minute Meteors
5)Haste

Level 4
1)Greater Malison
2)Stoneskin
3)Minor Sequencer
4)Spider Spawn (they'll walk through my Web, right?)
5)Otiluke's Resilient Sphere (I like the idea of being able to either save an ally, or immobilize an enemy with one spell. I might choose Emotion instead, though)

Level 5
1)Breach
2)Lower Resistance
3)Spell Immunity
4)Animate Dead
5)Feeblemind (I wanted Cloudkill, but I figure I'll just sell the wand I get in Irenicus' dungeon and buy it back)

Level 6
1)Prot. from Magic Energy(does this make the 8th level sell redundant?)
2)Prot. from Magic Weapons
3)Death Spell (Death Cloud instead?)
4)Chain Lightning
5)Contingency

Level 7
1)Mordenkainen's Sword
2)Project Image
3)Spell Sequencer
4)Ruby Ray of Reversal
5)Finger of Death (with enemies likely to save, would Khelben's Warding Whip be a better choice?)

Level 8
1)Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting
2)Spell Trigger
3)Pierce Shield
4)Prot. from Energy (does this make the 6th level spell redundant?)
5)Simulacrum

Level 9
1)Time Stop
2)Chain Contingency
3)Spell Strike
4)Shapechange
5)Imprisonment


Please read and comment. I've left a feww questions in parenthesis above, and I'd love to get some feedback before I make a change that I'll regret.

[ October 28, 2005, 11:52: Message edited by: Klorox ]

 

Well to be honest, identify seems like a complete waste of a good spell to me. There are quite some terrific early items for identifying nearly everything in the game (glasses and Haer' come to mind) So why do it?
To be honest I also can't imagine a sorcerer without Khelben's warding whip. Maybe you could leave out Moderkainen's sword? /I/ never missed that at least.

 

The 2nd lvl spell Glitterdust is always on my must have list, it blinds, it reveals, good-bye invisibility and immunity: divination combo. I would replace vocalise with it.

3rd level, may be wise to take remove magic incase Keldorn may remove all your partys buffs.

I would always take polymorph for the 100% mag res the mustard jelly shape offers (helpful when fighting mages). Otiluke's Resilient Sphere is a bit annoying because both enemies and NPC's make their saves all too often.

At level 5 I would recommend Sunfire instead of feeblemind. It bypasses magic res.

Level 6, what abnout mislead or improves haste?

Definatly Khelbans instead of Finger of Death.

The 6th level prot from energy gives 100% immunity to energy whilst the 8th level spell gives 75% to energy, fire etc. Choose a different 8th level if I were you its a complete waste.

9th level, Imprisonment may be a bad idea since you lose all the equipment. Maybe Spell Trap or Powerword kill?

[ April 06, 2004, 15:45: Message edited by: Malovae ]

 

Like Lacessit said: Dont choose Identify. Maybe Burning Hands instead of it?

I would also get rid of Haste. I never use it. There are several Boots of Speed to be had and the spell will make you become fatigued too soon. Lightning Bolt? Or Vampiric Touch?

Later on Death Spell becomes a bit useless. I would recommend... Flesh to Stone or Nishruu or a summoning spell. Let another spellcaster (Aerie or a bard) take the Death Spell.

But keep Mordekainens Sword. They are resistant to damage and will prove to be very useful as shields - to keep some distance between you and difficult opponents.

Let your Sorcerer choose the spells that you will need in great quantities and let other, more flexible spellcasters take the ones that are needed to deal with specific situations. My two cents.

 

I'd keep resist fear myself. I cast it on my party everytime I prepare for a big fight as i'm fed up when members start running away. I also use haste quite a lot, so I'd keep that too. I'm surprised you haven't got pierce magic in your level 6 spell list. After breach, this is one of the best spell penetrators. Also improved haste can really aid your party. Cast it on a tank and give him greater whirlwind... need I say more.

 

Klorox,

here are my suggestions:

Level 1: Take "Friends" instead of "Shield". The bonuses of shield aren't that great (your sorc shouldn't get into brawls at all) while friends makes shopping a lot more fun.

Level 2: I'd trade "Web" for "Glitterdust". There are better disablers than web in the game. Hold on to "Vocalise" since your sorc will become completely useless when sinlenced. It's your insurance for your primary spellcaster to function no matter what.

Level 3: "Haste" is not a must and could be replaced with "Remove Magic".

Level 4: "Otiluke's" (cons mentioned by Malovae) and "Spider Spawn" (up to 2 sword spiders, woohoo!) aren't all that great. Go for "Teleportation Field"/"Emotion" and "Wizard Eye" (know your enemy before it knows you) instead.

Level 5: Drop "Feeblemind" and get "Chaos"! This is one of the best disablers in the game since the enemy saves at -4 (combined with greater malision it's -8). Almost everything that has a brain will start to wander about or hitting its comrades, thus making life for your meleers much easier.

Level 6: Take "Pierce Magic" instead of "PMW" (again: your sorc really shouldn't fight). Avoid "Death Cloud" because it isn't party friendly.

Level 7: I'd take "Ruby Ray" OR "Khelben's". "Finger of Death" could be replaced with "Summon Hakeashar" (enemy mages running out of spells are fun to look at).

Level 8: Replace "Pro Energy" with "Maze". If you want to deal with a boss's lakeys first, send him away for a few rounds so he gets the attention he deserves a bit later.

Level 9: Drop "Imprisonment". This spell is so overpowered that it's not fun anymore. Plus you loose the equipment of the enemy. Take "Spelltrap" instead or if you have the staff of the magi maybe "Freedom" if you don't want to cary scrolls with you.

Another 2 cents ...

 

Level 1 spells are fine as long as you have "Identify" and "Magic Missile" -the only ones that are truly useful in every part of the game.

Level 2 spells aren't that great; that acid arrow does hardly any damage and the wait to cast another spell is just annoying. Vocalize is also useless, since very few enemies use "Silence" -spell. Glitterdust would be a better choise.

At level 5, feeblemind isn't that great; almost every enemy will either resist it or have somekind of magic barrier preventing use. Take "Minor earth elemental summon instead."

And the last point: change simulacrum to "Mirror Image", as it gives an exact copy of your character and can cast spells at the same level. With that, you will have practically limitless amount of spells in your pocket

 

And the last point: change simulacrum to "Mirror Image", as it gives an exact copy of your character and can cast spells at the same level. With that, you will have practically limitless amount of spells in your pocket

He can't do this because "Mirror Image" is level 2 and "Project Image" (the one you are referring to, imo) is level 7 while "Simulacrum" is level 8. Both "image" spells are already on his list ...

 

Well, I'll throw my hat in the ring on this as well.

Level 1 - looks good to me. There's not much you're going to use beyond Magic Missile, Identify, and maybe Chromatic Orb, so it really doesn't matter what you fill the other slots with.

Level 2
Vocalize - I don't know how much you're going to benefit by this, as you have to be able to speak to be able to cast this spell. It will work if you know you are entering a fight where you might be silenced, but since you have to cast it pre-emptively, I don't know why you'd want it.
Web - also kind of weak - there are better ways to impede your enemies.

I'd sub out these two and take Glitterdust (for reasons already stated) and Blur is pretty decent for a quick AC boost, plus I think it stacks with itself.

Level 3
Haste - is useless if you're soloing. You can still only cast one spell per round unless you have improved alacrity, so it's only for escape purposes. I hardly ever haste my characters because they get fatigued, and it just requries you to constantly rest. There's nothing else you absolutely need, but I've never made a sorcerer that didn't learn fireball. Or how about dispel magic - especially if you don't have Haer Dalis or Keldorn.

Level 4
Spider Spawn - it's a pretty weak summons. I guess it's better than MSII, but I don't think it's going to save you. Chances are, if you are going to summon something, you're going to want something more than sword spiders.
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere - they get a save I believe for this, and if so, chance are your enemies and allies will make those saves.
Again, there's not much else you really need. I sometimes use ice storm. Minor GLobe of Invulnerability? Maybe a Fire Shield? 4th level is just a lousy spell level IMO. Not much to get excited about after minor sequencer and stoneskin.

Level 5
Feeblemind - Cloudkill is highly recommeded here. The other 4 picks are solid, but Cloudkill is going to be much more useful than Feeblemind - have a mage get that scroll, and save money by not buying the wand.

Level 6
Death Spell isn't all that great. I'd take Summon Nishuru or Pierce Magic before this.

Level 7
5)Finger of Death - Khelben's Warding Whip is definitely the better choice here. I think taking down protection is something you're going to need to do a lot more of.

Level 8
Prot. from Energy - Am I the only person who really like Incendiary Cloud? This hasn't been mentioned by many people, but I love the spell.

Level 9 - Time stop can be pretty good with Improved Alacrity. I'd be tempted to keep it. Most of the really good spells are level 10, which you are going to learn regardless, so there aren't many "bad" picks for level 9. Although Spell trap is really, really, useful.

 

I've been silenced before and cast this spell to get out of it. I guess there's no verbal component to Vocalize.


Thanks for all the help everybody. Keep the input coming!

 

I've got to hand in my opinions as well, seeing as Sorcerers are my favourite class (one of 'em anyway):

Level 1:
1)Chromatic Orb - Its an awesome spell, which can give you great results if used after a Greater Malison.

2)Identify - Its not particularly of great use unless you are very particular about having the item you have identified as soon as you get them. Chuck this for Burning Hands instead.

The rest are fine I think.

3)Magic Missile

4)Spook

5)Shield

Level 2:
1)Melf's Acid Arrow

2)Mirror Image

3)Resist Fear - You're right, its a waste of a spell slot for a sorcerer when you can have a cleric do this. Besides, at lvl 2, as people have already mentioned, Glitterdust is an EXCELLENT spell.

4)Vocalize - I doubt you'd be using this as well, especially after you get the Amulet of Power...you ARE going to give it to your sorcerer, arent you? (with Robe of Vecna preferred) Get Stinking Cloud or Aganazzar's Scorcher instead...its surprising how effective Stinking Cloud can be when used in conjunction with Greater Malison. Just chuck one at enemies, and then pelt them with Fireballs and Skull Traps. Yeah, I know its a bit redundant after a while, but its much more useful than Vocalize.

5)Web

Level 3:
1)Flame Arrow

2)Skull Trap - Good choice. It has no cap on the damage, whereas Fireball has a 15d6 cap on it. These really hurt once you're past level 15-17 or so.

3)Slow - It gets redundant VERY quickly...you might want to consider getting Remove Magic instead...very useful to have against enemies when you can't be bothered with using Pierce Magic et al...especially if you dont have the slots to waste on it.

4)Melf's Minute Meteors - Great spell.

5)Haste - Not good. Get Protection from Normal Missiles instead. Its surprising how far into the game enemies use plain arrows...and they can be a pain when you are casting spells as well.

Level 4:
1)Greater Malison - Essential spell...no sorcerer worth his salt doesnt have it.

2)Stoneskin - This one is more essential tho Pick this first.

3)Minor Sequencer - Not very good for a sorcerer. Have your mage cast it...get Wizard Eye instead of this.

4)Spider Spawn - These will walk through your summons but by the time you get this, the spiders wont be much use...unless you hit them with Improved Invisibility first or something. Not worth it. Get Improved Invisibility instead...its cool for sneaking around, and besides, you get bonuses to avoid getting hit by enemies at all!

5)Otiluke's Resilient Sphere: It gets redundant, get the Fireshield spell (blue if you want to damage your enemies, or red if you want the fire resistance). You also might want to consider Wizard Eye. It is essential for a ton of spamming tricks you can use with Project Image.

PS: Spells cast in the following order - Mislead+Wizard Eye+Project Image+Spell Immunityivination are a great way of making your Project Image's casting foolproof...in that, you will not be getting hit by the enemies, so your image will not get dispelled. In effect, you can get 4-5 times the normal number of spells you would have had by using this tactic. Only downside is, you won't have many 7th lvl spells left after this .


Level 5:
1)Breach

2)Lower Resistance

3)Spell Immunity

4)Animate Dead

5)Feeblemind: Dont use Cloudkill from wand...Cloudkill when used in conjunction with Spell Triggers (especially in mid-levels) can be devastating. Spamming Firkraag with Cloudkill is cheesy. But its pretty essential when you're soloing and are getting beat.Also, its great to get rid of all those pesky goblins and kobolds who are spread out over a wide area. Takes too long to whack them by hand. Oh yeah, and don't get Feeblemind, its a waste of a spell. It only ever happens that the enemy fails his save very rarely and then too...if you can Feeblemind it, you could just kill it!

Level 6:
1)Prot. from Magic Energy(does this make the 8th level sell redundant?) Yes it does, dont take it. Take True Sight instead...there is a lot more use you will get out of True Sight throughout the game, than you will from Prot. from Magic Energy.

2)Prot. from Magic Weapons: This is an excellent spell...you aren't supposed to be in combat, true, but what happens if you get ambushed? Or if the enemies have magical arrows? Or the enemies all target only you because of the AI? It guarantees you 24 seconds of peace of mind and uninterrupted spell casting. Get it...its awesome!

3)Death Spell: Dont get Death Cloud, and contrary to what someone said earlier, don't ditch this spell either. It loses effectiveness later on, but I found that it gave me great use throughout SoA and halfway through ToB as well. Just use a Greater Malison before you use this spell. Also, this spell is great throughout the game to get rid of summons! That is the more attractive part of the spell, rather than the 9HD of enemies it kills.

4)Chain Lightning

5)Contingency - Chain Contingency makes this redundant as you cannot have the two on at the same time.Get mislead instead. Its a MUCH more useful spell than Contingency. Mislead is a staple of Sorcerers to avoid getting beat on by enemy fighters as much as Stoneskin is!! Well...not as important as Stoneskin, but definitely second most important. DO NOT make a sorcerer without Mislead...trust me!

Level 7
1)Mordenkainen's Sword - These make great meat shields.

2)Project Image - Awesome spell...Simulacrum is crappy but this one rules...get it for sure.

3)Spell Sequencer

4)Ruby Ray of Reversal

5)Finger of Death: Death spells are never terribly reliable, what with the saving throw they get and all...and the damage it does is piddling. What you could do is either take Khelben's warding whip instead of this, or you could consider getting Powerword:Stun. It has great penalties to the saving throw and is very useful, with its casting time of 1 to quickly stop enemies in their tracks...think about it!

Level 8
1)Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting - greatest direct damage spell there is.

2)Spell Trigger

3)Pierce Shield - Contrary to what some people might say, it is a highly useful spell...keep it by all means. Also you might want to consider getting some other spell at level 7 instead of Ruby Ray of Reversal, seeing as Pierce Shield will take care of the 1 highest spell protection the enemy mage has...which is the same thing RRoR does...with the added advantage of knocking off as much MR as Lower MR does.

4)Prot. from Energy: It is a crappy spell...there aren't that many times in the game you will need resistance as desperately as to use this spell, and most times, you probably wont even remember to get this up, what with the Project Images and Skulltraps you will be casting! Its a waste of a perfectly good lvl 8 slot. Get Incendiary Cloud instead! Its GREAT for damage over time...I put three of these in a Chain Contingency, set on Sight of Nearest Enemy. Ran into a room and ran back out...barbecued enemies after a minute of cooking time! But seriously, its a great spell, which if used right, can save your bacon.

5)Simulacrum - The way I use Project Image, Simulacrum's pretty redundant to me. I prefer getting Maze instead...as it gives you atleast 3-4 rounds of breathing space if an enemy mage is getting too annoying. It doesnt have a save or anything, so once you get rid of them, you can get your defences back up! (Mislead, various spell immunities, stoneskin, fireshields, mirror images etc etc) This is especially useful when you're fighting various bosses.

Level 9
1)Time Stop

2)Chain Contingency

3)Spell Strike - If you use Pierce Shield and Khelben's Warding Whip together, I don't think Spell Strike is really useful any longer. Save your spell picks at lvl 9 for something else...after all, its the best lvl there is. Get Spell Trap...its great if you want to absorb enemy spells as well as get your own spells back...thanks to the enemy!! At any rate, Spell Trap is infinitely more useful than Spell Strike in your case.

4)Shapechange - Great spell. Cast Time Stop, then Shapechange into a Mindflayer...hit all the enemies there are...in three hits or less, they will be dead!

5)Imprisonment- Totally overpowered spell. Forget about it...unless you want to save it for really desperate situations where you cant really think of any other way of winning...but considering the spells you have, I doubt you will be in such situations often. Consider getting Wish instead. If you have a high Wisdom (all sorcerers OUGHT to, in my opinion), you stand good chances of getting ALL your spells back! You can't really get better than that.

Phew...now...if you were to go by what I've said...your revised spell list should look something like this:

Level 1:
Chromatic Orb
Magic Missile
Spook
Shield
Burning Hands

Level 2:
Glitterdust
Melf's Acid Arrow
Mirror Image
Web
Stinking Cloud/Agannazar's Scorcher (take your pick)

Level 3:
Skull Trap
Remove Magic
Melf's Minute Meteors
Protection from Normal Missiles
Flame Arrow

Level 4:
Stoneskin
Improved Invisibility
Fireshield Blue/Red (take your pick)
Greater Malison
Wizard Eye

Level 5:
Breach
Animate Dead
Cloudkill
Lower Magic Resistance
Spell Immunity

Level 6:
Mislead
Death Spell
Chain Lightning
Protection from Magic Weapons
True Sight

Level 7:
Project Image (forgot to put this in.)
Power Word : Stun
Spell Sequencer
Ruby Ray of Reversal
Mordenkainen's Sword

Level 8:
Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting
Incendiary Cloud
Pierce Shield
Maze
Spell Trigger

Level 9:
Time Stop
Spell Trap
Shape Change
Chain Contingency
Wish

Hope this helped.
[Edited for minor spelling and grammar]

[ April 11, 2004, 17:59: Message edited by: Faraaz ]

 

Wow, thanks for all the help guys! This thread is invaluable to me!

Faraaz, one question:

On your list of 7th level spells, you make no mention of Project Image, yet in your comments you say it's "awesome", and to "get it for sure." Which is it buddy?

I'm going to ditch Finger of Death (among other changes), and I don't know whether or not I should get KWW or PW:S. I think I'll go with the whip.

I'm also not sold on Imprisonment, but I don't know what to take in it's place. I should have the SoM by the time I can cast 9th level spells, so I don't think Spelltrap is worth it. Any other suggestions besides PW:K and Freedom (actually, what does Freedom do?)?

 

All Freedom does is release people that have been imprisoned/mazed. Thus it is needed for one quest in the Underdark and if you screw up fighting Kangaxx or the Demilich in WK. I'd say it's better to use a scroll than use a slot on it.

 

Oh, ok, that's what he's referring to. The guys sells like 4 of those scrolls, doesn't he? No problem.

 

Replace identification for another spell, as you soon find ID googles.The rest is Ok.

 

i would keep finger of death because even if they make a saving throw they still get dealt damage, but if you combine it with greater malison and you pump them with as many finger of deaths as possible, then you can pretty much say 'bye bye' to most monsters, also please! i beg you, replace feeblemind with cloudkill, it will save you so much gold on constantly buying the wand, and it is IMO one of the most useful (not overpowered) spells in the game.

 

@Klorox: If you scroll up in my rather *ahem* voluminous post to the part where I'm talking about the fourth level spells, you will come across this little tidbit:

PS: Spells cast in the following order - Mislead+Wizard Eye+Project Image+Spell Immunityivination are a great way of making your Project Image's casting foolproof...in that, you will not be getting hit by the enemies, so your image will not get dispelled. In effect, you can get 4-5 times the normal number of spells you would have had by using this tactic. Only downside is, you won't have many 7th lvl spells left after this .

That is the reason I highly recommend Project Image. It IS AWESOME! You can effectively double/triple/quadruple your daily spells depending on how cheesy you feel...

Get it.

@People Person: The damage Finger of Death does is negligible...13-16 damage (which is what I usually get in my sort of extensive experience with that spell) is piddling by the time you are in a postition to set up a Finger of Death spell...and as is the bane of all instant death spells, Finger of Death doesnt succeed that often.

IMHO, the order of precedence for level 7 should be as follows:

1) Project Image
2) Mordenkainen's Sword
3) Spell Sequencer
4) Delayed Blast Fireball (great tactical possibilities) or Finger of Death (personal choice really)

 

i know finger of death doesnt do much damage, but if you cast as many as possible,(cant remember exactly how many you can cast) then combine that with greater malison and most monsters will fall (except for the really powerful ones, eg:bosses, dragons) but it is still useful, cause if it does at least 13 damage each one, then 3/4/5 (dependent on level) of those will do a decent amount of damage and probably kill most monsters!

 

Nothing wrong with that PP, but you have to realise that FoD is a 7th level spell...I doubt Klorox can afford to chuck them around all over the place, when he has 4 of them, 5 with the ring of Wizardry...6 at lvl 28...but the point is...you need to set FoD up with Greater Malison...and it is not often possible...by the time you get it off, and then wait another round...most bosses are making mincemeat out of you...and instead, if you summoned a Morenkainen's sword...you'd effectively hold them off...

I'm getting sidetracked ...the point here is that FoD is a 7th level spell, you dont have many of them, and you cant afford to bombard enemies with them, heck...you cant afford to have all the 7th lvl spells memorized as FoD...except if you're playing a sorcerer....

 

@ Faraaz, your post did not make much sense (no offense) but he is a sorcerer (read the subject) so that is no problem, and i did forget to inlcude using a Mordaikens Sword as a 'tank' to holf of fire to you, while you pelt him with Greater Malison and FoD's and i say this strategy because it worked with me (or it could be i got lucky)so it might work with you! (im just trying to be helpful)