Legal Brothels in the UK

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4619098.stm

Thoughts and comments folks? The proposals look fairly reasonable to me. Increased safety for the prostitutes, whilst cracking down on traffickers.

 

Addresses... where are the addresses....

Maps... maps would be a good thing here.

 

Saint Augustine said if you were to eliminate prostitution, decent women would take up the job. There is some truth in that. Sometimes I wonder if it isn't better to regulate prostitution instead of pushing it into the underground where criminals rule.

The chief imperative in dealing with prostitution should be that people aren't forced into it by any conditions, from criminal exploitation to poor financial perspectives.

If adult, informed people who are not coerced or pressured want to do that, there's not much we can do and I don't think we should waste too much energy saving them from themselves. Perhaps a better idea would be to educate people on human sexuality. But by that, I mean real education, not feeding them with leftist propaganda that starts and ends in telling them they can do what they want and everything is fine.

 

"Sooner murder an infant in its cradle than nurse unacted desires"

William Blake

Repression of desires (especially sexual ones) leads to all kinds of problems, issues and such.

We're studying Measure for Measure in our Literature class, and one of the issues that came up is how much of a right the state has to regulate peoples sexual freedoms.

I'll put it another way. Pompey, a pimp, is asked by Escalus, a judge, if his trade is a lawful one. His reply:

"If the law would allow it."

 

I was in Las Vegas last November. Las Vegas is in a county of Nevada where prostitution is ILLEGAL, yet everyone you talk to thinks it is legal. This included the casino workers, cab drivers, hotel staff, etc. It was difficult to go anywhere without seeing one or a pretty blatant advertisement for one. I kept on wondering if the police even attempt to enforce it.

 

It should have been legalized years ago.
But tax them for it. Oh yes, tax them to the hilt.

 

Actually, having control over yourself - desires included - is what makes you a man.

 

Yes, Svyatoslav has nailed it. The rest is excuses. Except maybe that apart from being man enough to master one's desires, there's also the wisdom of not playing with fire.

 

Utterly unacceptable.

Prostitution is one of the most degrading and ugly predations that can be inflicted on women. Legalizing and regulating it gives the marginal benefit of making that degradation safer, while exacting heavy (and often unnoticed) social costs.

Granted, it's hard to imagine how much more anti-woman our legal system can get, now that pornography, easy divorce, and abortion are safe and legal. But we have to hold the line somewhere.

Will this stop human trafficking? Hardly. Some of these women have been out-and-out kidnapped, but the vast majority were lied to in their country of origin and brought to Europe or the US on the promise of a paying job. That lure won't stop even if prostitution is legalized -- in fact, it will get even worse. Why?

First, the demand will increase. The safer the activity and the more socially available, the lower the financial cost and "moral threshold" for acting. Example: explicit sex scenes in movie; once shocking, now quite common, extremely safe, very cheap, and acceptable to most. (Can you imagine any normal girl today saying she wouldn't date someone who dared to watch movies rated higher than PG? It's just understood that everybody sees this stuff.)

Second, the legal supply will not suffice. These pitiable women are being trafficked, yes -- not from Edinburgh or Dublin, but from Nigeria or India or other far-flung locales. Is the UK going to agree to allow anyone and everyone to legally enter the country, on a worker's permit -- or even gain citizenship -- merely to work as a prostitute? Insofar as the UK puts any kind of limit to the number of female immigrants, it opens the door to human traffickers.

Third, prostitution as a career has two peculiar aspects: it is both short-lived and difficult to leave. One doesn't just work as a prostitute for a few weeks over Christmas, or put it on the resume as a summer internship. Once trapped in the work, the nature of the work makes it hard to escape. Further, the "window of utility" is perilously short, not just because the woman grows older but also because she gets used up. Daily degredation is not kind to anyone's body, no matter how "regularized".

Fourth, prostitution's appeal isn't simply a way to satisfy a sexual urge, but often it is a way to satisfy a darker passion: the desire to exploit. Some like prostitution not in spite of, but because it is ugly and degrading, and the men can treat the women as objects in ways that they could never treat a woman with dignity. Legalizing prostitution doesn't make this go away; it just creates a shadow industry racing to the moral bottom. We already see this in red-light districts, when "cleaned-up" stores stand next to shops that seem to glory in their ugliness.

And fifth, the better solution is to crack down mercilessly on the men in the trade -- pimps, traffickers, and sex-renters -- while putting in place programs to reintegrate these exploited women into society.

And sixth...I'd better get off my soapbox. Hmmph!

 

Yes, legalize it; then regulate the bejeezus out of it. i.e., mandatory testing for STDs, contraception, etc, etc, etc.

In other words, make it like the porn industry.

 

OK, AMaster, in the spirit of regulation -- what about the buyers that have STDs? First, no protection is 100% effective for stopping the spread of an STD; second, some buyers (STD or otherwise) will be willing to pay a premium for an unprotected session; and third, STD-owners probably earned that STD through promiscuity and are thus more likely than the average non-STD'd fella to want the services of a prostitute. The risk of "regulating the [stuff] out of it" is that, in the process, the benefits you expect from legalization are lost because a good chunk of the business is still pushed underground by those evading the regulations.

In this respect, prostitution is quite unlike the porn industry, and evades easy legalization.

 

I believe I said 'repression' not 'suppression'

Suppressing your urges makes you a man. Repressing your desires make you a machine. Or Spock.

 

Eh, it would be quite difficult to regulate the profession, unless there was someway for an instant STD test, which I don't believe there is. If there was, it would be easier to regulate it, because there could be a doctor at each brothel that tests all 'buyers' instantly, and if they have STDs, do not allow them to enter. I don't mean it in a way that discriminates against those who have STDs, but it is better to keep those who don't have them safe, and not allow STD-carriers from having sex.

Of course, for that to work, we'd need an instant STD test...

But in general, I don't think prostitution should be outlawed or legalized... I don't like the idea of arresting people for having sex for money, but I don't like prostitution in general. I don't think people should be prevented from having sex with whoever they want, but I don't think there should be money involved, nor should the prostitutes be treated however the buyer wants them to. I don't know of a better way than to either legalize it or outlaw it, so for now, I think sex-for-money should be outlawed, until a better system is made.

Personally, I would never want to have sex with people I don't know, and I don't think people should, but if they want to, and if they understand the risks they are taking, then they should be allowed to. I don't like abridging freedoms, but I don't like the abuse of freedoms either.

In other words, I am in the middle, and until a safer, less degrading system can be created, prostitution should be outlawed.

 

I agree, hookers should not be allowed to charge us for having sex with them, it's a bloody shame that it's not part of our social services system.

 

Eh, I didn't mean it like that... I meant that I don't like the idea of paying for sex. I think it should be consensual and between to people who are attracted to each other in more than just a "I just met this person, but they're good looking, lets have sex," way.

 

On a slightly related topic:

Going to AMsterdam in the summer! WHooo!

 

Don't worry about it Saber, i knew you didn't mean it like that. I only read between the lines for a more amusing interpretation of my own.

 

I would reiterate: prostitution, by its nature, is a very different beast than other social vices. We can make coherent arguments about legalizing drugs, gambling, and other casual vices, but the same arguments do not apply to prostitution; the costs and benefits are different, in quality and quantity.

This is not a question of abridging freedoms, but of the most fundamental human right: the right to be human. Not an object, but a human. No one should have the right to freely degrade their fellow human beings, even if the degradation is consensual; and no society should claim the right to freely degrade their citizenry, even if the citizens clamor for that degradation.

 

Make prostitution legal and the prostitutes start complaining about paying taxes...

No, really, they do.


At least it keeps a lot of them out of criminal circles.