Longbows or crossbows?

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I'm currently working on creating en elven archer and halfway through character creating I froze. Wich should I specialise in? Longbows or crossbows? Is the number good magical bows equal to the number of good magical crossbows? Can I still find good bows that don't require 18 strength?
What do you think?

 

I personally think shortbows are better.

Edit - removed the Throne of Baal references.

[ March 03, 2005, 15:08: Message edited by: Cesard ]

 

With longbows, you get a strength bonus to your damage inflicted. So if you are planning on making a weaker character, it might be better to go with a crossbow; a stronger, a longbow. There are a great selection of ranged weapons in the game but the longbows give you more extra added bonuses later in the game.

 

Hmm... We are talking about SOA longbows and crossbows... I'd say take longbow, 'cause +3 longbow is available very soon at the game (Nalia's Keep or Windspear Hills dungeon), elves get +1 to hit with it and also your character looks more... eh... attractive with a longbow.

 

There are two reasons I would give long bows the nod here.

Bows in general give you more attacks. With a standard bow, you get two attacks per round. Now, with an archer this will be even more, as I assume you'll get grand mastery in the weapon of choice. Crossbows on the other hand, give only one attack per round, with the one exception being the light crossbow of speed, which gives two. Again that can be increased as well with grand mastery. All things being equal though, a long bow will get one more attack every round as compared to a cross bow. More attacks equal more hits, which equal more damage.

The other reason I favor the long bow is because of the diversity of readily available ammo. Crossbow bolts are somewhat limited, especially early in the game. Outside of the standard +1 and +2 generic variety, the only types of bolts you'll have access to are bolts of biting and bolts of electricity (but they cost a lot). Once you get to the underdark, you can start getting your hands on some kuo-toa bolts too, but that's pretty far into the game, and they are in finite supply. Arrows on the other hand, come in a wide array of types. In addition to the biting type, you can get fire, ice, acid, and piercing arrows. The only real damage type you'll be missing out on is electrical damage. So I give the nod to bows.

 

Now c'mon, to be a righteous Archer, you've gotta be using a bow, right? I mean a guy who uses a crossbow isn't an archer, he's a crossbowman

That aside, there are plenty of good magical bows, both short and long, so you can't really go wrong. But to take Aldeth's argument a step further, you ought to consider shortbows, as there is a shortbow in the game that gives 3 attacks per round, and you can get it very early.

On the other hand, I have to say that if I were going to create an Elven Archer, I'd go for longbows, and try to get the Elven Court Bow asap. How cool would that be, eh?

 

@Truper

Yes, if you include short bows in the arguement, I agree that they beat out both long bows and crossbows. I think the Gesen bow is the most damaging in the game, because even though you can fire it without arrows, you can equip it with arrows if you like, and you get the arrow damage (including any associated elemental damage) on top of all the damage the bow would do without arrows equipped.

The only problem there is say you're using arrows of fire or ice, and you attack something that is immune to +1 weapons. In this case, you don't do any damage, because arrows of fire or ice are considered +1 weapons. Even though it should still do the electricity and magic damage, you don't get credit for it.

 

There is another reason to go for bows, if your archer is a member of the fair people.

IIRC, elven folk obtain +1 to hit when using bows and longswords. This is not applied to crossbows, so selecting bows for your elven ranger would make more sense.

 

Somebody did a test a few years back that I ran into while rumaging around in the forums. Apparently the +1 to hit for Elves applies to all swords, not just long swords.

 

I can't imagine an Elf with a crossbow

 

Short bows are best in this game, high rate of fire, better 'special' bows and very divers ammo. Only one who I ever give a crossbow is Jan!

 

Don't Longbows have better range than other types of bows as well?

 

I very seldom play a character that can use a crossbow. But there does seem to be a lot of useful ammunition (bolts) lying around pretty early in the game, so I like to get a character who can use the crossbow - usually Keldorn or Jan. Slings are also good to use, for clerics and mages anyway, although there isn't much variety of sling ammo.

I would consider specializing in crossbow if I knew ahead of time that I would have a longbowman and shortbowwoman already - party balance/diversity is kind of fun. I do know that Minsc is proficient with a longbow. If you're not planning on tanking him (!), let him be your archer.

 

Use short bows. You get the Tuigan Bow in the Copper Coronet from the Beastmaster which gave my elven archer 6 attacks per round with grand mastery at lvl 9 (I think it was lvl 9, it happened a while ago), then add improved haste when you get it for great fun , plus when you need to hit something like an iron golem or lich you can use the Gesen Short Bow mentioned above

 

You would think so, but that has not been my experience. With all types of bows, if you can see it, you can shoot at it.

 

@Caen Jade: How do you get 6 attacks per round? Is that with Improved Haste? Because a lvl 9 Archer with GM in Short Bows has 5 attacks with Tuigan's Bow +1, and IIRC 9-10 with Improved Haste.

 

Missile weapons! What fun!
I'll assume 7th level archer with grand mastery (without mod), using the girdle of hill giant strength, using non-magical missiles, and hitting every attack (quite a stretch for 7th level).

Best early in game:
Tuigan bow - 4 att/rnd, 1d6+7 damage - 42 avg per rnd (60.75)
Eagle Bow - 3 att/rnd, 1d6+7 damage - 31.5 avg per rnd (47.25)
Strong Arm - 3 att/rnd, 1d6+10 damage - 40.5 avg per rnd (57.75)
Heavy Crossbow+2 - 2 att/rnd, 1d8+11 damage - 31 avg per rnd (46.25)
Lt Xbow of Speed - 3 att/rnd, 1d8+8 damage - 37.5 avg per rnd (54.25)
Sling of Seeking - 2 att/rnd, 1d4+16 damage - 37 avg per rnd (53.75)

The archer will get more damage at 9th level (and every 3rd level after that) and an additional half attack at 13th level. The average damage per round for a 15th level archer is in parenthesis.

 

Wow, T2Bruno, that was surely very interesting (copies the damage down)...
So Tuigan Bow is not at all bad...

(Shows how useless missile weapons are, compared with Celestial Fury/Flail of Ages + Belm/Kundane + Belt of Hill Giant Strength)

 

IIRC, a lv40 archer with grandmaster shortbow has only 4.5 atks/round with tuigan. And you can never pass 5 atk/round without improved haste

 

My wife complains that I over-analyze things -- I don't know what she's talking about.

The Tuigan bow becomes great with any item giving improved haste. For a 21st level archer that comes to 9 attacks per round at 1d6+12 which gives an average of 139.5 damage (if all arrows hit -- which isn't very much of a stretch given a THAC0 of -13) with a 162 damage maximum, the damage goes up a lot with magic arrows (Arrows of Piercing are really fun). We haven't even looked at called shots. The Archer is going to have almost two rounds before most enemies can close to melee. Pincushion.

This uses up a lot of arrows -- QUICKLY. This is unfortunately not addressed adequately until ToB (although, if installed, you can get the appropriate items in SoA). So most will just shift to the Short Bow of Gesen with a 1d8+14 damage per attack with an average of 129.5 damage and 154 damage maximum (for that same 21st level Archer).

[ March 04, 2005, 17:08: Message edited by: T2Bruno ]