Marriage Today

Prenupts changing the default joint ownership of goods and joint inheritance while in marriage are one thing. Prenupts saying what happens in case of divorce are another.

Since I absolutely do not believe in divorce and remarriage, therefore a merely civil divorce would be for me the last resort in protecting children or avoiding the sad necessity of having to live with a dangerous person, I do not want to draw such contracts. And in fact, I'd rather avoid the other kind of prenupt too (the one that doesn't talk about divorce).

In some cases, prenupts are justifiable, but in most cases, I would feel it's a selfish idea or distrust or preparation for divorce, lack of faith in the idea of marriage or marriage with me, or some such. None of that do I need in my marriage if I ever am to have one.

However, which probably addresses one of your points, I intend to have a religious marriage, so yep, ordered by God and not by the world, like in older times. With the exception, of course, that I won't be marrying for any political or economical or social gains. If I'm abandoned and divorced later, then so be it, but I won't be marrying without the certainty that the other person believes in marriage until death parts us, without any exceptions to permanence, fidelity, exclusivity etc.

 

I think the increase in the divorce rate has far more to do with the fact that marriages that should break up are now breaking up. The societal stigma towards divorce is fading, so more broken relationships are being dissolved in that manner. The @40% divorce rate has more to do with broken or adversarial relationships than it does with declining faith. Historically, not even the Catholic faith banned divorce (it just banned remarriage), so it should come as no surprise that, with the decline in the social stigma attached to it, the frequency of divorce has increased.

When my wife and I were married we were quite young (she was 19 and I was 21) and just starting out in the world, so we didn't have a pre-nup. If I or she were fabulously wealthy, you better believe we would have signed one. After all, it only takes one person to break up a marriage, contrary to popular belief, and it wouldn't do to marry someone just to have them leave three months later and take half your ****.

 

I think the reason so many couples don't get pre-nups is closely liked to the reason so many end up divorcing. They don't think before they get married. They get married in the heat of love, and a pre-nup would be like a massive cold shower, and 'they love each other' so it'll obviously never happen to them.

I do think people are getting divorced more now as a result of failing values, but I think it is more the sanctity of marriage that is falling than the acceptability of divorce rising. People get married on whims, without thinking or really knowing the other person. I'm sorry, but if you get married after only knowing the other person a few months, you probably don't really know that person. That isn't to say the marriage is doomed to failure, but its odds aren't nearly as good.

 

Abuse, inattention, infidelity, incompatibility, falling out of love, growing apart over time...

"Back in the day" when divorce rates were low, the wives of absentee or abusive husbands didn't leave them because there was nowhere to go or out of fear of the scorn society would aim their way...not because it was against their religions. Just 30 years ago, we still had the notion that abused children did something to "deserve it". Frankly, I think a high divorce rate is far preferable to couples staying together in abusive, unhappy, or loveless marriages. We always seem to forget that the good old days usually weren't.

Doubtful. Pre-nups get successfully challenged all the time. Pre-nup or no, there are few life events messier than divorce...both personally and financially. Most people aren't going to want to subject themselves to such a serious, expensive (the average wedding costs more then 10 grand), and painfully ended commitment unless they are damn sure that their fiance is "the one".

 

Freedom.

Freedom from starvation. Freedom from rape. Freedom from pain. It is safe to live individually.

Women don't need men to protect them, and men don't need women to breed child-workers (the fields have become mechanized). We now need strangers in order to survive (economics), rather than family members (agrarian).

If you want to see a marked decline in divorce, start a war, or cause a massive disaster.

This is not to say that when two people have a bond strong enough to weather a life-time, something any the less beautiful has occured---it just means a whole bunch of other less fortunate people don't have to fake it and suffer silently.

 

And the circumstances under which they should break up are more common (or at least harder to sweep under the rug). When I first signed on to a singles site that catered to Mormon singles (marriage is taught as a sacred covenent that can reap eternal blessings), I was surprised at how many divorced women I saw. After corresponding with some of them, I heard stories about abuse, infidelity and addictions on the Husband's part.

There are laws in place to guide people through the process of divorce and a judge to arbitrate the process. For Marriage, there is no clear concensus on what it takes to make the marriage work. Sure there are written works on the topic from various sources (psychological, religious or romantic based), the wisdom of those who've been there before or whatever, but there are wild variances in what they reccommend.

I've heard that it takes more than love to make a marriage successful. It is hard work. It's not 50-50, it's both sides giving all they have to make the marriage work. In some cases, one partner is unwilling to make the sacrifices or changes that are required, or even actively assault the marriage (abuse or infidelity specifically).

Marriage has to be more than that for it to be satisfactory. There has to be that emotional connection, and it has to be nurtured or it will dwindle and die.

Another thing that nobody has really touched upon is the fact that today there are more distractions. "Back in the Day", there wasn't 12 hours of Football on Sunday afternoon and Monday Night Footbal/Raw, Playboy magazines, the internet, movies, television, video games, or an explosion in the availability and popularity of gambling. As a result, couples spent more time together, as man and wife and as families with their children, keeping those bonds strong.

 

I'm not really sure that the idea of a lifelong union of two people is necessarily a great one. Sure, it's a valid option, but it's not suited to everyone, or even most people. There are other alternatives to monogamous marriages that have been pretty much extinguished by Western culture which I think would be pretty damn awesome to see showing up more often.

So, could the rate of divorce be up simply because lifelong marriages are not a natural state for humans to be in, but are instead something imposed by culture?

 

I think one telling statistic to remember is that the vast majority of marriages that end in divorce (something like 86%, if I remember correctly) end within the first 5 years. This seems to mean that there's still nothing wrong with the idea of life-time marriage, so long as you pick the right person and work at it. Apparently a trial period of about 5 years is generally required to figure this out, though.

In the end, however, 'falling out of love' is no excuse. Anyone who has been married past the honeymoon, and many people who have never been married, will tell you that the feelings alone don't last forever. that doesn't mean the person is wrong for you, or that they aren't a good influence, it just means that feelings are inherrantly transient things and you can't rely on them alone to sustain your marriage.

 

Why is it a disaster that people switch partners? I would more like to say that marriage itself is an archaic institution that is hardwired into our legal systems and the romantic in everyone of us.

 

My wife isn't the woman I married anymore because 9 years is a long time and a lot of change happens over time, but I still love her. If we ceased loving each other, the marriage would be over, whether we ended it or not. I've seen couples try to hold loveless marriages together and will tell you that they and everyone in their family suffers until they finally come to terms with it and end the marriage. There are few things as painful as trying to hold together a loveless marriage. Falling out of love is one of the best reasons to terminate a marriage.

 

I wouldn't sign a prenuptial agreement because I think my wife should get half of our stuff if we broke up. Why should I hog all the cash when she has been at home raising our kid?

 

I just spent a year in South Korea where the divorce rate is 18%. Many marriages are, more-or-less, arranged and gender roles there are still fairly traditional, i.e. dad works 12 hours a day while mom stays home and cooks, cleans and raises the kids.

From a distance one might see Koreans as having a better way of doing things than the morally bankrupt West, but look closer and it's anything but a pretty picture.

A large number of Korean men cheat on their wives, often with prostitutes. Many women cheat on their husbands as well and there is a kind of "don't ask, don't tell" attitude regarding infidelity. Wife-abuse is also quite common and accepted. It's not unusual to see a husband beating his wife out in public as Koreans stroll by them on the street and just ignore it.

My year as an American-in-Korea made me a bit defensive about all this West and America bashing. Yes, we're too fat and drive gas-guzzling cars and have a high divorce rate, but don't assume that other nations are superior based simply on raw statistics.

 

@Drew: Civil divorce is not banned. Ecclesiastic divorce, however, is non-existent. This means that the person does not stop being your spouse. You're merely allowed to cut the civil bond in some instances, but the sacramental bond remains once it's there and the marriage is consummated. So there's no divorce from a sacramental marriage in the sense of one's not being married anymore.

 

You think it is bad now, I'm dying to see what the divorce rate will be in a few years. Young people today seem to have more of a hook up mentality than a mate mentality. Mrs. Snook went to a meeting at little Snook's middle school and came back horrified. She kept me up all hours of the night with statistics.

I can't figure out the ramifications of the "hooking up" culture. I figure it is possible that the divorce rate will plummet because this culture may never marry.

 

It isn't a disaster as long as children are not involved, however more often than not children are involved in which case divorce can be quite a bad thing, especially when there tends to be a lot of negative emotions and the children often get caught in the crossfire. An unhappy marriage is worse though but I don't think divorce should be taken too lightly.

 

BTA, and what exactly would be the point of making a prenuptial agreement just to state the obvious that would happen anyhow?

 

Ah, but have there ever been times when you haven't actively felt all that love and desire, maybe in the heat of an arguement? There's the raw emotion of love, and there's the state of love that is connected to a strong social bond and some level of commitment. Many in this generation don't even know the second exists, they think if the person is hot and fun to be around, they are in love and either it will last forever or they can get a quickie, no-fault divorce when it does end. The second lets you last through rough patches in your relationship without turning the marriage into a hollow shell of what it should be.