Maybe i am getting too philosofic but...

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i actually do not understand a thing:
WHERE DO game producers market researchers look??? Just follow the thread of my thoughts:
People who play ad&d are people who think. They spend a lot of time to game, some live in the virtual reality. They are intelligent dreamers, romantics. And they desire the world to live according to their mentality...
So why dont producers make rpg games plain early-medieval? why they stick red pianos and crazy-bad-fantasy everywhere? This is annoying! An ideal RPG would be ad&d + bit of jrr tolkien + a bit of Europe in middle age.
Of couse this is my humble opiniaon, and maybe others would like full plated knights running sprint, dragon mixed with chopper, red pianos and yamaha drumm sets lying around in the dungeon, leprechauns in red shorts (like in Diablo2), and machine guns+3 with acid damage... I dont know.. am i the only who understands this? i see the way rpg should go and where did they go wrong... but... AM I ALONE????


[This message has been edited by kasio (edited May 03, 2001).]

 

There are lots'n'lots of games claiming to reflect Middle Age BUT not a SINGLE game has charasters riding horse, fighting on hourse jousting etc...
Another chance for improvement...

 

I mean... I am desperate!
Any one shares my feelings?

 

And i am a level 2 goblin chief!


Ah well... "And generally that was a bad day for him"

 

Well, the idea of the RPG is to have a world that is generally unbelievable. It's fun to have a game that is completely unrealistic (like just about every game that's ever been made).

If games were merely reflections of real life and history, it'd get pretty boring pretty fast. And I can't imagine playing a jousting game for more than ten minutes before returning it to the store. It would be impossible for a programming company to create a good enough AI so that every jousting match was different and exciting.

Oh, and I wouldn't be surprised if this topic was moved to "Whatnots". And a word of advice: STOP SPAMMING.

[This message has been edited by Sapiryl (edited May 03, 2001).]

 

hmm i see you dont share my feelings about rpg.
and again i disagree: unbelievable rpg worlds are all around - hundreds of them! why can we have one realistic? let us see how much copies will be returned to the store!!!!
Tell me Sapiryl: you like these red pianos in the corner of inns? do they fit there?
And sewers (was introduced in 19th century in europe, and something of this was in Ancient Rome) under a medieval city! obviously made from metal! Where have you seen that? Why not do we fight Dragons when according to your opinion we should fight Magic Stealth Bombers? ("It's fun to have a game that is completely unrealistic"(c) Sapiryl)
oh! you disagree with fighting Magic Stealth Bombers? you say there must be some rules?
AND THATS WHAT I SAY! There must be some rules.
On details - read above.

This is not a "Whatnots" topic this is topic about Baldurs Gate SoA.
And i agree there was a little spamming from me

[This message has been edited by kasio (edited May 03, 2001).]

 

Yes, you're WAY too philosofic...

 

BTA, consider yours his second warning, since I've already left a message to him about posting the same topic twice.

 

Ooooh, I'm in a world with magic and dragons, but what's this? A piano - good grief, everyone knows in the real world it should be a harpischord, hold on, a guy's talking about the nineteenth century concept of entropy, what's going on ARGGH. I don't believe this any more! My suspension of disbelief can stretch to a completely different world in which magic is real and there are hordes of monsters, but if there are some anachronisms my head explodes. Its absolutely impossible for some areas of scientific/technical development to move at different rates relevant to one another than in the real world. Magic couldn't possibly have made some things happen earlier and some things get delayed.

 

Kasio,

Well for the most part I think you need to organize your thoughts a little more. To start with RPGs are 'unrealistic' by there very nature. In a world of magic sword wielding warriors and fireball casting mages I wasn't getting caught up the fact that there was a piano in the corner. And I can't even count the number of time I as a DM have sent my players into the sewers under some city. It's all part of the game.I think you were missing the whole point of the game. The D&D rule system is a high fantasy setting of heros. The rules and thus the games based on those rules are not realistic. I you want a realistic RPG game system go play GURPS or Chill. In a CRPG the player does want their characher to die in almost every fight or die of some diease or infection. What do you happened went you were cut upon by a axe in the middle ages?

Shall we have games about being peasents? No we want excitment and therefore unrealistic situations. I do agree that a RPG that let you ride horses would be cool but that is more of a programming issue than a design issue. Considering all the copies of BG and simular games that were sold I guess they are pleasuring most people.

 

I, for one, love the pianos. I like the tavern music as well. I have found, however, I can kind of edit an in game experience in my mind and sort of block out what I don't like, like the poster of Elvis or whatever in the back room of one of the marts or something. I think FR is kind of the standard fantasy role playing scene, its a pretty medieval anglo-saxony tudorized mish-mash. I love it. It looks like my neighborhood. I'm waiting to see a nice MGA fixed head coupe with wire wheels tool past me in town. Would be in the university district, but that was conveniently left out.

[This message has been edited by Orkrist the Cleaver (edited May 03, 2001).]

 

Okay kasio, do you want realism? A realistic RPG?

Scenario:

Medieval France, about 1160 AD. Ten percent of the population is royalty. Fifty percent of that is the jousting, drinking, adventuring gentry. On the role of a 1000 sided dice, if you get a 37, you can compete in games and adventuring. If you get an even number less than 400, you die instantaneously of the Black Plague. If you get an odd number between 401 and 553, you get drafted into the army and die instantaneously. Any odd number between 555 and 809 and you get drafted into the army and you have no adventuring possibilities, game over. If you get a 999, then you are a lucky peasant and get to adventure with 17% of the stats that a 37 would get you. Any other role, and you are a turnip gardner and never get to do anything, game over.

Oh, yeah! Rock on realism!

 

ah the life of a turnip gardener, now that's what I want to do for the rest of my D&D life *pfffft* <-- farty noise --=used to emphasize sarcasm=--

I agree with Voltric as well. I run a Chill campaign, there I try to instill a lot of realism into the gameplay but it is also very hard to keep a player's attention and interest unless you add in a twist of surrealistic blood bath intertwined in the plot. So far, everyone loves it.

Personally, I enjoy a lot of different rpgs because they don't have to be played by the 'realistic' materials which life is composed of. I believe realism should be a part of D&D but not an overwhelming taste of the game. The average player gets sick of playing a game that is too realistic. Players want to be able to do things that they can not do in real life.

 

I see.. You like pianos (and obviously hope to see once NPC maestro playing it), metal made hu-uge sewer pipes, acid machine guns+3, chopper-dragon mutant, and ninja turtles-kensai.
Thank you for opinion.
I am shocked that all as one you comply on that.
And actually i am quite dissapointed by finding it out. I was almost sure that my position is so understandable, matter-of-course...
Well... Sometimes I think that i have born 6 centuries too late of 6 centuries before my time.

OK.

Long live red pianos and dragon-helicopter-mutants! I Give UP.


And in conclusion:
50% enjoy solitaire (the rest - too complex, takes too much entering spirit of the game)
40% enjoy 1st pers shooters (asks for graphics and big booms, blood n gore)
9.95% enjoy real time strategy, monkey island, HoMM3 and other middle-iq class games (asks for gameplay)
0.05% asks from game a little more than GAMEPLAY, more than plain fantasy story, asks for spirit of the game, for something to live in... for feeling of alternative world.. hard to explain. (anyway if you dont understand what i say by now... you wouldnt, dont even try)

I thought i am speaking to these 0.05%.. but i guess i am wrong. i am speaking to the 9.95%. in the best case.


[This message has been edited by kasio (edited May 04, 2001).]

 

Now I'm lost!

You mean if, then perhaps, maybe, but it's like .....

You are either confused with yourself or confused in expression, but I think a more meaningful discussion could be obtained by showing a little more clarity of point?

Also struggeling to see anything philosofical at all about this thread. Cynical on the other hand, that I can do...

 

What exactly you dont understand?

 

Kasio,

The boat left the deck and you're still waving goodbie. D&D has by it's very concept nothing to do with reality. You're fixated on red pianos and sewers but was there magic in the middle ages? Did all the creatures in D&D roam the land with all the powers they have in the game?

D&D and most RPGs as Vandalore pointed out are designed to be 'unrealistic'. The point of role-playing is to do things you can't do in the real world. If you want a totally realistic world just look around you don't need a game. But my players in cyberpunk what the excitment they can't get from 'real' life. They want the rush of kicking in a door and rolling on the floor with automatic gunfire spraying the room. They want to experience the thrill of netrunning into a hostile computer system. When I play D&D I want to cast spells and speak to magical beings. If my DM said some NPC is playing a piano I would have a fit, it's not a big deal. As long as you keep the theme and mode of the game your playing anything is possible.

And for this 0.05% stuff. I like a lot of different type of computer games. I play some FPS but I perfer RTS and RPG but no compter game has ever matched the power of a Pen & Paper RPG session. When you talk about being a purist the only purist I am is a role-playing one. I play the games not to min-max, not to be a power gamer but to role-play and have fun.

I think you need to relax and enjoy the game more.

 

All right kasio. I'm not gonna say what I want to say, because first of all, it would be edited and second of all, your grammar is bad enough and I don't want to follow your example.

Did I ever once say that I liked red pianos? They're red because they're made from cherry wood. Cherry wood is *red*. It's also very expensive which would be a good reason to see them in a lot of houses. People would want to show them off. And what metal sewers are you talking about? The only area in BG2 with metal sewers is the old section during the beholder quest. And...BG2 is a *fantasy* game! *GASP*! No! You mean that it's not supposed to be realistic?!

And where in Hell did acid machinguns come from? The only game I know of with anything like that would probably be Fallout or Resident Evil. Dragon helicopter mutants? Until you brought it up, I never even imagined such a thing.

And finally, you talk about the gaming industry bringing out a realistic game, and then you say that the perspective buying percentage is .05%? No company in the world would produce with that kind of a loss factor.

Oh shucks! Look what I gone and done. But you might want to add some things to your list of unrealistics: Amn is not a real country, magic weapons do not exist, swords cannot talk, elves do not exist, dwarves do not exist, lightning-bolt firing short bows do not exist, gibberlings do not exist, there are no negative/positive projection planes, undead do not exist, real adventuring parties could exist of more than 6 people, I could go on and on...

 

hey kaiso,
I think a lot of people at least partially agree with you, but I think you just pissed us off with the 6 posts in a row or whatever it is. I think that if you hadnt done that then you would have gotten a much nicer reaction. just stick to the rules next time.

--FenixStrife