Monk Powers

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I've never really been able to properly envision the whole Monk Ki power business.For example, How does the Monk's damage reduction actually function within the game world? Does the Monk's body simply become tough enough that mundane weapons can't put a scratch on it? And what's up with the Ki Strike? I kind of get the feeling that the concept of the Monk in DnD is slightly confused between magical powers and simple physical and mental discipline.

 

Actually, the concept is based on the stereotype Shaolin Warrior Monk. They believe that by hard disciple, dedication and meditation they can focus energies of their bodies (known by some as "ki") for amazing feats, such as deflecting spears and swords with bare hands, striking trough steel and much more.
It's another matter entirely whether this is true or not, but still, they do pretty impressive things.

 

Watch the Pai Mei scene in Kill Bill 2. (4.15-5.15)

 

I kind of have a better feel for it now. I think I may have been confused by the depiction of the Monk in BG2, which actually used the word "magic" to describe ki. Also, the glowing eyes. What's up with that?

 

Glowing Eyes are probably some inner energy-thingymajig.

 

Actually, at 20th level the monk becomes an outsider. The Glowing eyes could be a part of the transition...

 

I've always seen the Monk as someone who has such complete control over his body that he can simply regenerate very quickly (the DR). They can channel their minds to force their bodies to perform beyond what an undisciplined, unenlightened person could do. I love the monk powers and just the entire flavour of the class. I'd give anything to play one, but finding a group is beyond me at the moment

As for the eyes, that's just silliness, but I suppose it is someone's attempt to depict the power of a monk's extraordinary mind and soul radiating out.

 

The DR isn't very clearly explained, at least not in the NWN manual (which is the only source of D&D knowledge I really have). Either the monk's body becomes so strong that mundane weaponry can't put a scratch on it, or they just regenerate normal wounds instantly.

 

Well, about four years ago, I was watching a group of Shaolin Monks put up a mighty fine show on TV (they were actually in Finland, but it was New Year's Eve and the tickets were all sold, so I coulnd't go there to watch), "Circle of Life" I think it was called. Anyways, one of the demonstrations included hitting and stabbing one of the monks with sharpened swords and spears.
Now, I'm not saying it was real, I really don't know about it, but they claimed that by focusing their Ki they could harden their bodies like that.

So I guess it's the hardening option.

 

I've been to a circle of life when it was coming around here. Pretty impressive. Even if those weapons weren't sharpened, which i strongly doubt they were. Anyhow, i doubt that those traveling teams are the best shaolins have to offer.

There's videos floating around the web about superhuman feats shaolins are supposedly capable. They look pretty authentic. There's also a documentary about it by National Geographic.
As long as we're talking about static pressures, like weighting the bods on a trident or a spear, bending spears with points on your throat, hanging on a noose around your neck (under jaw, to be precise) or breaking bricks, iron bars and wooden sticks with blade of the hand, head or other parts of the body. It's common practice to toughen the fingers, to be able to use them for pressure points attack by thrusting stiffened fingers into bowls of rice for a few hours a day.

It's really interesting actually, i've researched it a while back, if anyone's interested i can explain some more, but it's getting kinda out of topic.


I've always considered monk powers in D&D a kind of an upgrade of the real shaolins. Static pressure resistance became immunity to normal weapons 20. I've always imagined damage reduction as being impervious to that amount of damage, rather than instant regeneration, even after reading the official explanation of it. Kinda feels weird to have a wound just close in an instant, while nothing at all happens if the weapon is magical. I don't know how it works, but let's say a normal weapon is poisoned and strikes the monk with 20/+1 damage reduction. Sticking to the official damage reduction explanation, the monk should make a save against poison at every strike, even if he's not harmed at all by the physical damage. Can anyone confirm if he has to make a save or not?

I think monk powers have much to do with their extensive training. It has to start at 6th year of age and lasts practically all day for years.
It'd be interesting to see different kinds of monks depending on the school one's trained in. Kinda like martial arts schools, they're really various. Of course, the more one's trained in any the more they converge, but still, there's some differences. There should be some if shaolin-like culture had developed anywhere else on the world. Unfortunately, AFAIK it is the only as extremenly dedicated to "D&D monk" stereotype that i know.

 

Boy am I going to take some flak for this, but I'll say it anyway...

I think monks are one of the lamest things to happen to D&D. 1E monks were easier to visualize in an "eurocentric" (for lack of a better term)high fantasy setting (the majority of adventure settings are), but not the 3E and 3.5E version. The new monk is here because these days everything "cool" (imagine air quotes around cool) has to involve ninjas, samurai, or martial arts somehow. There aint nothin' that can't be made better by having a ninja in it, is there? (Yes, Comicbook Guy, I know that ninjas and monks are not the same thing, but they are of the same vein).

I mean, really, can you imagine a martial artist in a fantasy setting like LOTR? Okay, I know you Yugio (or whatever the current Asian export of the day is) fans probably can but I'm talking to the normal people here.

 

Thanks Giles, Now I have visions of Jackie Chan as a part of the Fellowship...

 

It doesn't work does it??!!

 

I kind of agree. Monks have never really bothered me, but I've never used one or had one in my party. Just seems to clash with the fantasy theme the other characters have going. Warrior, wizard, cleric, rougue, er.. monk. I am intrigued to solo a monk though. Hell, Im going to go try it in hotu.

 

Actually Giles, while it wouldn't fit, he'd kick some royal ass against the Orcs and such.

I myself look at the Oriental idea of the monk as only one version of the monk. If you look at MMA, Boxing, Wrestling (professional or amateur) or even movies where guys just use their fists and feet to beet the crap out of each other, that's more my view of the Monk. If you focus on unarmed combat as opposed to arms and armour, then you'll develop skills to match...

 

Gnarf,

In light of your most recent post, if I were DMing a game with you playing a monk, it would not be unlikely that in a treasure horde somewhere your character would find "The Folding Chair of the Ancients". It is a folding chair +4 with an expanded critical range (15-20)x5. Only useable by characters with 10 or more ranks in the perform skill.

 

LMAO, That works...

 

Gnarf and others:

On a more serious note, you indicated that a person could think of the monk class as a diverse representation of different weaponless fighting styles—Eastern and Western— and that the Oriental make was just one take. I would respectfully disagree.

As someone said earlier in this thread, the class is based off of the Shaolin monk idea and because that brand of martial artist is so unique, I find it near impossible to separate out that stereotype when I think of the class. The powers and abilities and how they are gained are not universal to martial arts. Gaining these tremendous powers through wisdom (as opposed to magic) are not your average-joe martial artist fare. Do wrestlers do 'ki' strikes? No. Are boxers rumored to have the ability to make their bodies as hard as stone? No, although I’m sure Evander Holyfield probably wished he could— or at least his ear. And if you’re putting the boxer up as a type of monk, I’m afraid that the wisdom and intelligence scores for those monks would need some penalties as they go up levels to indicate brain damage from all the head-shots they take.

This is just my personal opinion on the class, but I feel that the way the class works and even the name precludes any other sort of martial artist than the far-eastern “grasshoppah” style monk. They have to come from a monastery where they were trained to use their vast wisdom to do everything that their fist couldn’t, and blah, blah blah. A 3E monk is not the guy who grew up in a bad part of the hobbit-hole who had to use his fists and his street smarts to get by and eventually became a martial artist-fighter through the school of hard knocks. I don’t think a background like that could explain how this character has the training/insight/power/wherewithall so that at 5th level, this street-though is all of the sudden immune to disease, and so on. A guy that was trained at a monastery by people who have developed this secret, yes. This and precious few of any of the monk's powers are granted by nature of the fact that they use thier fists to kick the backside of injustice. The mystique of the class is that the monk has access to this training and as they level up, they are unlocking the secrets of the masters... or whatever.

From the game mechanics side, the high wisdom requirement will have players pumping that stat up, dexterity as well for feats and the AC bonus, strength for more H2H damage, and then constitution to make up for them being a frontliner that can’t wear armor and has only a decent hit dice. Intelligence and charisma get the shaft. This leaves every monk out there being wise and quick, but a silent loner that nobody really knows. How many times has that stereotype been done by David Carradine, Jackie Chan, Jet Li (especially Jet Li), and who know how many other kung-fu movies, stories, etc.

The bottom line is, this character class does not set itself up for a very rich roleplaying opportunity unless you want to follow the stereotype that this class was based upon. And I can’t even BEGIN to imagine how someone would multiclass to monk and have it make sense. “Uh guys, I gotta go away for a few years and train at a monastery so that I can be a ‘monk’.” Or can one just read a book in between adventures and pick this stuff up?

Am I being nit picky? Probably. Am I overlooking stuff? I am expecting that I will hear from you out there about how I have.

 

1.Or: Maybe he's been a monk: "Okay people, there's something I must tell ya, I know ya'll thought I was just a priest with unnecessarily high dexterity, but actually, I'm a monk. I don't know if this shocks you, but I thought telling this after I leveled up was better than before leveling. And yes, I'm sorry when I had to lie to you that I was useless after I cast all my spells and let some of you die."
2.Or: Maybe a kungfu legend, like the nutcracker shows up in a vision and trains you. "Testical kick number 49 is done with the whole leg, remember to put your toes correctly."
3.Or: It just happened: "Man I dunno, I just woke up like this, look I got a new haircut and I know how to whoop a** with my bare hands, you can keep my warhammer, baby, I *am* the weapon now."

 

Gilles, you are forgetting that the damage resistance doesn't come until 20th level. The DMG suggests that 1 in 2 makes second level. That means that 2 to the 20th power. 1 in 1048616 will make that high a level. That's bloody rare even in legends.

Ki Strikes simply bypass damage reduction. Not sure. But Stunning Fist would be like any strike ad a finishing move in WWE...

Admittedly there is a high degree of suspension of disbelief in D&D (yes, even more than required to watch WWE). The assumption of no Brain damage from headshots is one such thing that they ask us to accept for the game...

Or the loud obnoxious guy in the bar that can punch a hole through the table if the waitress is late with his ale? Wisdom is applied understanding. In this case, it's how to block, how to use his body as a weapon...

By widening the description, you simply make it possible to simply pick up a few tricks to block an incoming shot and how to hit really bloody hard with your fists. Multiclassing to a monk would be deciding to develop thies tricks to their fullest...