Mormons!

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I just moved into Mormopolis and I can't figure out whether it's a religion or a cult... HELP!


TO THOSE WHO ARE INVESTIGATING "MORMONISM"

Mormonism: the Death Cult

http://www.lds.org/

 

Gnarff will probably sort you out soon - but try looking it up on www.religioustolerance.org

(Edit: oh, and a cult is just a religion you don't like. Gives it a more sinister sound )

(Edit2: Wow - that second link is scary... )

 

Wow. Equating Islam and Nazism (second link). The mind boggles.

 

First, The third link posted in the original post is, in fact, the official Church website. The first two are penned by those that have left the church.

While some facts are correct, much of it is not.

The Gospel is huge and complicated, and the early principles must be taught first. Much of what this section mentions (the correct stuff, not the lies) involves the more advanced details. There weren't too many real surprises for me (except of course how meanspirited these anti-mormon people could be).

The version as presented was written as an introduction to the Book of Mormon. There was a lengthy delay between the First Vision and receiving the Book of Mormon, and the procedure of translation of the Book of Mormon was a time consuming process, interrupted on more than one occasion by the mobs that wanted to silence Joseph Smith.

And how many politicians make similar claims about their opponents? Their wrath against the faith undermines such credibility.

Um, if you saw some plates made of Gold and Brass, wouldn't you want to take it for the metal that it was made of? That is whyu they were kept hidden until the time to reveal them to those selected witnesses. Further, those were among the first families to join the Church. There wasn't a huge pool of members to choose from...

If you read the teachings of Jesus Christ in the New Testament, the Scribes and Pharisees didn't understand the Law of Moses that well either. The Nephites had Prophets and a body of Priesthood in place to minister unto the people as commanded by the prophets.

We actually have the Bible and the Doctrine and Covenents as well as the Pearl of Great Price as well as about 175 or so years of words from the prophets that walked the earth since then.

Let's see, The mobs probably destroyed or forced them to abandon the Kirkland Bank. This was the actions of the mob, where the members themselves chose this course of action. I would believe the same that hindered the gathering of Zion in Missouri. I believe that the Deseret Alphabet was abandoned as the Church was growing too fast to completely abandon the use of other languages. The remaining references I haven't heard of.

And who were the victims of these murders? If they knew about the hoax, then the Church may not have been totally fooled. And wouldn't the church have to be "victimized" by this hoax so that the criminal would be caught and brought to justice?

Never heard that one before. Adam was, in the premortal existance, Michael, and Archangel.

The Law of Consecration. It is a recognition that we only have stewardship over the things that we are perceived to own. God has placed certain resources in our hands, and from there we expand the stewardship as we choose. We, by making the covenant to obey this law, remember this, and seek to use what we have to advance the Kingdom of God on the Earth.

I know the church practised this, and abandoned it under pressure from the United States Government in 1891 I believe. I never heard anything about having multiple wives being mandatory for admittance into the Celestial Kingdom.

Funny how I never heard anything about the "Curse of Cain" until I started to hear from Anti Mormons. I know that in 1978, the Priesthood was explicitly extended to all worthy men regardless of Colour. I do remember that in the early days of the Church, They did not challenge the rights of slave owners in the South, and therefore could not teach the gospel to Enslaved Blacks without the permission of their owners.

That one was pure Adulterers face Excommunication, as do those that fully apostasize (sever ties with the church and ask that their records be deleted). The principle of a "Church Executioner" directly contradicts official Church Doctrine as presented here:

***We believe that all religious societies have a right to deal with their members for disorderly conduct, according to the rules and regulations of such societies; provided that such dealings be for fellowship and good standing; but we do not believe that any religious society has authority to try men on the right of property or life, to take from them this world's goods, or to put them in jeopardy of either life or limb, or to inflict any physical punishment upon them. They can only excommunicate them from their society, and withdraw from them their fellowship.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 134:10)
***

Basically, that ultimately debunks the notion of a Church executioner.

The information about the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible came from the Re-organized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, now known simply as The Community of Chirst. They split from the main body of the Church after the Death of Joseph Smith. They believed that one of Joseph Smith's sons should succeed him as Prophet of God.

No act of God or prophecy given through any prophet can supercede the free agency of man. If the prophecy was made (and the orders given) the person involved could still refuse or be thwarted by the interference of others, thus screwing over that prophecy.

First, He was in Jail, how would he get the firearms? Secondly, What verification is there of alleged sexual sin on his part? Thirdly, he had announced his candidacy to run for President of the United States. These could have been easily fabricated (along with these alleged threats to burn down the newspaper office). This from an account of someone in the Jail Cell with him:

***They were innocent of any crime, as they had often been proved before, and were only confined in jail by the conspiracy of traitors and wicked men; and their innocent blood on the floor of Carthage jail is a broad seal affixed to "Mormonism" that cannot be rejected by any court on earth, and their innocent blood on the escutcheon of the State of Illinois, with the broken faith of the State as pledged by the governor, is a witness to the truth of the everlasting gospel that all the world cannot impeach; and their innocent blood on the banner of liberty, and on the magna charta of the United States, is an ambassador for the religion of Jesus Christ, that will touch the hearts of honest men among all nations; and their innocent blood, with the innocent blood of all the martyrs under the altar that John saw, will cry unto the Lord of Hosts till he avenges that blood on the earth. Amen.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 135:7)
***

Like I said, there is much to learn about the Gospel. The sheer volume would likely intimidate many prospective members. Most are accurate, but a few I will touch on...

First off, "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring"
(New Testament | Acts 17:28)

Secondly, Lucifer was indeed a spirit Child of God, like us, but he proposed an alternative version of the Plan by which we may all return. 2 out of three of God's Children voted in favour of Christ's plan.

The only ones that failed any test were those who folloed Lucifer when he was cast out of Heaven to become the Devil. We, the ones that came to earth, were the ones that voted in favour of Jesus Christ's plan.

I haven't heard that one either. Polyandry (women having multiple husbands) has never been sanctioned in the Laws of God, therefore considering the eternal nature of Marriage, I am suspicious of that one...

Again, I've never heard anything official on that one either. I'd be tempted to call that that comes from those that hate the Church.

Tithing monies are used to build Chapels and Temples throughout the world. The church asks for regular donations to other causes:

Fast Offering: Basically the cost ov the food you would have consumed but forgone when you participated in a monthly fast (usually the first Sunday of the month) which seldom lasts more than 24 hours (those who cannot participate due to health reasons are excused from fasting but still invited to contribute money as per their ability). this money goes to an account to help those in need at the discretion of the Bishop.

Humanitarian Aid: This goes to areas that have been devastated by natural disasters and to help those in poorer regions (like Africa). It is administered by the Church itself.

Missionary Fund: This money goes to help those from poorer families afford the cost of a mission and to help thoise missionaries in more expensive regions.

Book of Mormon fund: This money is used to produce copies of the Book of Mormon that missionaries may distribute free of charge to those interested in the church.

Perpetual Education fund: This is designed to help poorer members pursue education so that they may become productive members of society and may support families.

This is the Word of Wisdom. We are also asked to abstain from illegal drugs as well. You won't be excommunicated for failing here, but you won't be eligible to enter the House of the Lord either. They tell you this when you investigate the church.

Would you rather a religion where you sit through a boring sermon for a couple hours on a Sunday and go out and do as you please the rest of the week? The full organization of the Church requires the services of numerous people, and many hands make the work lighter. I myself have been called to serve with the youth. Many people find that they enjoy their callings. Sure they can be stressful at times, but I find that the rewards (spiritually) are worth the sacrifices asked of me.

I don't seek that crap out, but here at SP, I have been exposed to it on more than one occasion. Basically, I rely on the Gift of the Holy Ghost to point out what is in their arguements, and this guidance in replying to it and supplying answers.

When the father of one from our ward who left the church died, a number of us signed a sympathy card to send to him. They are still our spirit Brothers and Sisters, despite the fact that they have left the Church and renounced their ties to it. Further, the question as I remember it, is "Do you agree with, affiliate with or belong to any individual or group who's teachings are contradictory to those of the Church?"

Encouraged, yes, but they really aren't pushy about it. Only the men are encouraged to marry women of course. Free Agency is respected in regards to mate selection, and if you do not believe that you have found the right one, then that is, ultimately, accepted.

Homosexuality is a sin, and we do not believe it to be pathology or a genetic condition. It is instead a temptation which must be resisted and overcome. Further, any sexual sin may be punished by excommunication. This includes fornication, adultery, homosexuality, incest, pedophilia, and beastiality.

The roles of Wife and Mother are much more important and sacred than the world makes them out to be. Further, there are many important and vital callings that women fulfill.

The fact that there were ex-mormons before 1990 means that that couldn't be true. Were this to be true, they'd have been murdered in a brutal and bloody fashion. Further, that claim directly contradicts the Law of God where it states "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and thus discredits these claims.

Further, the links provided on that site are to sites that oppose the church and it's teachings, and often lace their words with hatred of the church.

As to the second link, this one is quite scary, and I take the opposite view. When we sin, we take upon ourselves the chains of death and Hell. By obedience and repentance we free ourselves of these chains.

We were told in the beginning that we would all die and be ressurected as Christ was. We should not, however seek to bring this end forward faster than usual. The Sacrement is taken in memory of the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ on our behalf. It is the renewal of covenents made at baptism. Baptism itself symbolizes a death of the old self and a ressurection of you into a new life, free of your past sins.

Wrong. While certain standards are to be maintained, we are not tossed into a cookie cutter to come out identical. We are still unique sons and daughters of a loving Heavenly Father.

In our natural state, we would be disinclined to help those less fortunate, to sacrifice our own comfort for any other reason, or to refrain from seeking pleasure on grounds of morality. That is what makes the natural man an enemy to God.

This is not doctrine, but rather social pressures that exist in some ways. This is also doctrinally not supported. The standards are not as extreme as this person claims. While all men are encouraged to wear a white shirt and a tie to Sacrement meetings, they will not be ejected, shunned or refused admission for wearing another colour shirt.

Homosexuality is NOT an innate proclivity, but a temptation, furthered by such drivel as claimed by the gay community. it is to be resisted. Further, The Family is central to the church. Remaining single, delaying childbirth and homosexuality are contrary to God's plan for our happiness. Now again, they don't shun or excommunicate you if you are single too long, but they do have programs that enable you to meet other single members.

Wrong, We are still given freedom to choose for ourselves and given a list of expectations.

WTF? The bottom line is that Jesus told us to love thy neighbour as thyself. He didn't say love only our perfect neighbours...

A martyr? We are only asked to give our lives if necessary. That is seldom necessary any more. If this guy wants to die, then maybe he needs psychiatric help--from someone without an anti-religious axe to grind...

I don't find it embarrasing about polygamy, only irritating that the full story isn't public, only the parts that could be defamatory to the Church...

Nobody is taking you children away from you. I will always be a son to my earthly parents, no matter what I do in the church. I've even heard President Hinckley refer to his son as his son...

But if you live the doctrine of the gospel of Jesus Christ, those questions can be answered. What? that not good enough for him because it can't be proven?

As a Mormon, I can assure you that we are not dehumanized. My bishop know that I like to go to Heavy Metal concerts, and hasn't withheld my Temple Recommend. I myself cannot fit in a cookie cutter mould, and that is NOT asked of me.

AS for the site about religious tolerance, they provide theological arguements against the 17 points that set the church apart from all the other religions. I can see that their objective is to see all religions treated fairly and equally, and so they would want to take us down a peg. I challenge those of you who ahve faith in God the Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ to look up these references and pray about them and make your own decision.

Albatron, from the sounds of it, you will have a lot of Mormon neighbours. Relax, they aren't freaks, they are kind, honest, and would make great friends. They can't force you to join the church...

 

Albatron, it is a religion. The best explanation is simply reading the Articles of Faith believed by the Mormons. Make up your mind from there.

Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith were written by Joseph Smith (founder of the Mormon church) to give a concise picture of the beliefs of the Mormons.

Gnarf: why didn't you just post the entire Book of Mormon? (and Doctrine and Covenents, Pearl of Great Price, JS edition of the Bible...).

 

Honest, Bruno, I thought that what I did put would be shorter. Besides, I wanted to address specific points. And I wanted to say more than "most of the first two links consist of pure bulkl****."

Parts of the story are told, but not the whole thing. I get the impression that Albatron is not a mamber, nor is he seriously considering it. Perhaps some of what we do would be quite foreign to him...