Moving on...

Remove all ads!

Hmmm... I just need to get some thoughts out. I don't even know if this subject merits a response. It's just one of those major life events, that requires one to get his thoughts in order.

I feel like I should be happier about this than I am. If all goes as planned, I should be submitting my two week notice to my supervisor at the end of next week to take a job with a new employer.

As I said, I should be very happy about this. The current defense contractor for which I work has gone through a bloodbath over the past 18 months. With several contracts ending, and failing to win bids on new ones, our workforce has been cut in more than half through a series of layoffs. We've gone from about 320 employees down to 140. And it's not over, as more layoffs are anticipated over the summer. I suppose I consider myself one of the more fortunate ones in that I still have my job. I've worked here for 12 years, so perhaps it's my senriority. But I also feel like that I can't keep dodging these bullets.

I wasn't concerned when the first layoffs hit. I have always considered myself a productive employee, and there was plenty of dead weight we were carrying on contracts that could be cut painlessly. (Well, painlessly for those not losing their jobs. We could lose those people without having the quality of our performance decline in any meaningful way.) Basically, so long as you are semi-competent, and the government is willing to pay your salary, you can maintain your employment. The company makes a percentage of every hour you charge to a government contract, so they don't really care if you're particularly good at what you do, provided the government is willing to fork over the money to keep you employed.

That was early 2012. Things have only gotten worse since then. There was a major layoff in the fall of 2012, and then another this past winter. (Those two sucked minorly for me - they closed the satellite offices and moved everyone back to the main building. I went from having my own personal office back to a cublicle.) It's not just the dead weight anymore, as there is no dead weight left to cut. We're now losing good people. More layoffs are anticipated within the next month. And I could certainly be among them. My performance hasn't dipped, but there have already been other high-performing people let go in recent months. Many people see the writing on the wall, myself included. Several people have moved on to other jobs, and others, like me, have been looking.

Getting a job as a defense contractor is a long process even during the best of times. Between verifying security clearances, multiple interviews, and meetings with high ranking managers in the government, the process can easily take months. I will be completing the final step in my application on Monday, when I meet with the 2-star general who is running the program. (The company I'm applying to has the contract, but the program is officially still run by someone in the military. The military is our client.) I began this process in February, so it's taken 3 months. My prospective employer tells me that the meeting is more of a formality than anything - it's a contractual requirement, and there is no one who has got to this stage in the application process who the general has not approved for hiring. The whole converstion will probably last less than 10 minutes. Which makes sense - there's nothing this general can say to me that's going to make me not want to take the job, and so as long as I do my job, he doesn't give a rip about who I am.

Which brings me back to my original point. I'm still kind of bummed that I'm leaving. It's been miserable coming to work in recent months. (As you can imagine, employee morale is quite low given the circumstances.) And it's not like I can attempt to ride this out with any confidence that I'll survive long enough for business to pick up. For all I know, I'm gone in June whether I want to leave or not. A lot of the people who I was good friends with have also been laid off in recent months, so I feel like I should be jumping for joy that I'm getting out, landing on my feet, with no break in employment.

The new employer wants me to run the department. And they've asked me if there's anyone I currently work with that I want to bring along. It's going to be a 10-person team they are assembling, and they want me to run it, but they don't have the 10 people yet. So now I feel a sense of obligation to my current co-workers. I've been here for 12 years, so I know their skills. I would definitely want some of them on my team, but not all of them. The people I recommend will reflect on me, so I can only take the people who I am extremely confident will work out. Which is why I think I feel like crap. I'm going to be throwing out some life preservers and hauling people on to a life boat, but there's not room for everyone.

This is why I feel like my lot in life is never to rise above a department lead into a senior management position where I would be responsible for hiring and firing decisions. I hate telling people they just aren't good enough. (Or, in this case, not telling them that, but essentially saying it through my actions.) I don't think I could do what my managers have been doing recently. Laying people off who haven't done anything wrong. I could certainly fire someone for fraudulent time charging, or downloading porn, or some other major breach in company policy. (Like the guy who was running a personal company, and using this company's bandwidth to do it.) But letting people go just because you're running low on work? People with families, that are relying on that income? I don't think I'm cut out for that.

 

Tough situation there Aldeth, I feel for ya. Good luck. It's easy to lose friends over employment. My wife has had rapid advancement in her field over the last 6-7 years, leaping over her friends. It causes....rifts....in the friendships. Look on the bright side, at least you still have financial stability. That is a huge worry you avoided. But life takes us down paths that we sometimes can't avoid. Those that understand this will still be your friends and colleagues and those that don't..well...they will learn eventually, one way or another. Probably the hard way.

 

Adding a bit on dmc’s points 1, 2 and 3:

1. Congratulations on being proactive. You’d be surprised how many people see the writing on the wall but don’t do anything about it – whether because of fear of change, fear of not being able to find something else, holding out false hope that they’ll be spared from the chopping block, or whatever. You’re doing the right thing, and as dmc says, your current emotions will pass.
2. What is your relationship with these people outside of work? Would you be likely to remain friends, or even stay in touch, after you leave? If not, then I wouldn’t sweat it too much – it might sound harsh, but if you’re not going to see these people after you leave anyway, not bringing them with you isn’t a big deal. That’s not to say that I don’t sympathize with how you feel, but that’s how I would look at it (if for no other reason than to make myself feel better about it).
3. Almost any manager will tell you that the hardest part of their job is having to let people go, so in a way, nobody is really cut out for it. It’s more a question of how well a person is able to handle that aspect of the job. Generally, though, there are benefits to having a management position – as always, it’s just a question of whether the benefits outweigh the negatives.

 

First off, congratulations on finding a new job. It's much worse to not be able to provide financially for your family than it is to possibly lose some co-workers/friends.

I don't know how friendly you are with your current co-workers - how much you see them after hours. If you don't see them outside of work, you're not likely to see them after you leave the company (I suppose), so it wouldn't matter much either way.

Are you currently a manager with some people under you? Because if you're not, and you're about to become some of your colleagues' boss, your work relationship is going to change either way.

It's a tough choice who to take over from your (soon to be) former team, but in the end it's best for you and for your colleagues to take the most able ones. To do otherwise could lead to extra stress for you and that would transfer to your team too. And at least now you're in a position to help some of them, even if not all of them.

 

With 1, you're certainly correct that it's not a huge problem. I'm not only landing on my feet, but based on the preliminary salary negotiations I've had with the company, I expect the starting salary will be about 15% higher than my current one. While money isn't everything, it sure as hell helps. So yeah, any negative feelings here is probably more associated with survivor's guilt than anything.

I'm not sure that the anology of the Kings is super accurate. (Well the demise of the company is, but not necessarily the people they are selecting to keep.) The ones that are kept are more or less related to the type of work they do, and what the contracts are for. I view my job as being in jeopardy because I work acquisitions, and we aren't acquiring much these days.

To illustrate by means of example, the IT department has been cut in half in all of this as well. It's not that the IT techs did anything wrong, it's just that when you lose half your employees, you don't need as much IT support. Most of the cuts there were not performance related. There's just no margin for error. One of the people I have been friends with for years got let go because they didn't win a contract he had been working on. In the 7 years he had that team, he made the company over $12 million. But they weren't willing to float him on overhead for even a few months.

And that's the other thing that certainly causes me to feel less bad about leaving: I very well may not have a choice. The dead weight is gone. Good people are getting axed. Some for reasons completely unrelated to performance - and that has included some people in management. (Although I guess that make sense - if you lose half your workforce, you don't need as many managers either.) I can only conclude based on what I see that no one is safe.

I think #2 is my biggest issue, and specifically as it relates to one particular person. My team had five other people on it. There's two I won't be taking for sure. One of the women left for a job at another company, so there is no dilemna there in not recommending her. Another guy got laid off, and while he's still out of work, he was the least productive member of the team. I don't want him, but since I don't see him anymore, there won't be any confrontation or hard feeling anyway, so he's gonzo from the life boat too.

Then there's two that I would want. The first is a woman that I trained, and she's worked with me for years. Not only is she the best member of my team, but she's extremely friendly, with a great personality, and is a genuine pleasure to work with. I'm 100% yes with her, I've already given her name, she's had the phone interview, and they say they think they are going to move forward with her application. She has been thrown a life preserver. She has other feelers out there, and I would think that the only reason she wouldn't come with me is if she received a better offer elsewhere. And given that she would be an asset to whomever hires her, I see the possiblity of her having multiple offers to consider.

The fourth person I would also recommend without hesitation, but his application will be imperfect because he doesn't have a clearance. It's not that he can't get one, but that he wasn't required to have one with the info he was working with. And that's the way clearances work - if you don't absolutely need one, you don't get one. He is extremely competent, and I have passed his name along, but the company is on the fence because of his clearance status. It's costs about $30K to get someone a clearance, so that's a cost the company would have to eat to bring him on board. But this guy can sell himself. If they give him a call, I think that he could talk them into it.

Which brings me to the last person who I am on the fence about. The problem here is that I see a lot of me in her. She's the youngest member of the team, and is about the same age I was when I got into the industry. And I got in because someone gave me a chance. There's nothing I don't like about her, but she's short on experience. It would be a hire based on potential. She's only been doing this for a little over a year. I have 12 years. The other two have seven each. They have the experience and proven performance to back up their resume. There's nothing that I've seen that would tell me she wouldn't work out, it's just that I don't have the history with her to be 100% in on it. I know the other two won't let me down. With this one, I don't think she would, but I'm just not sure... But does she deserve the chance?

As for the being the person in charge of hiring/firing decisions, I've never done that. I've been a team lead, but never a task manager. While I provide management my input on all of them regarding their annual reviews, I do not personally review them, nor do I have any say regarding any raises or bonuses they may receive. I work with them daily, so I know how they are performing, but it's the task level managers that make all those decisions. There's basically four levels in management in the food chain. The lowest is team lead, which is what I'm at now. The next is the division manager, which is what I'm applying for. You have two or more team leads under you. After that is the task manager who has two or more division managers under him. And the highest is the program manager. There's typically only one of them, with all the individual task chiefs reporting to him (or her in the case of my present employer).

EDIT: As for seeing them outside of work, I think it goes without saying that the answer will be "not at all" if I don't recommend them. As for how it is now, I'm not best friends with any of them. I see them outside of work at parties, cookouts, etc., I've met thier spouses (except the junior member as she's not married), and I've met their kids of the ones that have them. But it's not about that. It's not how close I am with these people. I'm a firm believer in doing the right thing.

 

Aldeth, personally I think the “who to choose” question is pretty straight-forward. The more experienced one has a proven track record, and the only drawback is the clearance. (As an aside, I had no idea it was that expensive.) That same drawback presumably applies to the younger one as well, and in addition, she’s less of a certainty; if you take her, and she craps out, your new employer will wonder what you were thinking. I think you go with the first guy, and explain to the other (if you feel the need to) that your new position requires you to hit the ground running, and that means bringing people with experience; you could tell her she’d be at the top of your list if something else opens up.

 

Woah, TL-DR for me, but just to clarify, you're not 'moving on' from SP, right?!

 

Hell no Barms, at least I do not anticipate doing so.

I mean, I admit that I'm comfortable enough in my present position that I can log on to SP while at work a few times per day, and depending on the demands of my new position, I probably won't have as much time to devote to SP (and it goes without saying that if they have a policy of computer monitoring I won't be logging on at all during work hours), but I've been here too long - I'm hooked, and I'm not quitting SP.

 

First, congrats (whether or not you take it -- it's always great to be wanted ... except by the police, but that's a different topic). One thing to consider before taking personnel from your current job is any agreements you've signed. I have a confidentiality agreement and a non-compete clause. Obviously I can't divulge any proprietary knowledge but I also cannot take or attempt to recruit any co-workers from my current company for a period of two years after my departure. This kind of thing is pretty common although I don't know how enforcible it is. If the co-workers were let go by my current employer they become fair game.

It's tough to walk away from something you've put a good chunk of your life into. There will be feelings of loss and remorse but they will pass just like after you dumped a old girlfriend.

 

In the last few years I have been assembling raid teams and deciding who gets to come and who isn't in World of Warcraft. This has given me a considerable amount of anguish and guilt even in the very relaxed, fun focused guild I am in. Seeing as this is only a game I am utterly convinced that I am not management material. I am way too conscious of other people's feelings. I notice this in my profession as well, I am not good at telling students that they will fail and I constantly look for "loopholes" for them to pass.

 

Don't sweat it, your feelings and reactions are perfectly normal. A psychology friend of mine once told me that the only thing more stressful than changing jobs is dealing with a death.

 

What dmc said.

Plus, being in management doesn't mean having a cold heart and not thinking about people's feelings. You're doing some of your management a disservice if you think they're all soulless suit and ties like someone out of Dilbert.

 

First, thanks to all who have offered their congratulations.

Well, I'm not even considering the deadwood. And as I said, there really isn't any deadwood left - they've all been laid off at this point. But your second comment is really what I'm talking about with the youngest one. Everyone on my team that has arrived in the last 7 years has been trained by me. (Well except the one without the clearance - he's a cost analyst, and so his work is distinct from mine.) That includes not just the most recent members of the team but other members who have come and gone over the years.

And my experience does reflect what BTA references. Of all the people I've trained for these positions - and the total number has to be somewhere in the 8-10 range - all but one of them worked out. And that one guy spent more time outside texting and talking on his cell than he did working. So I am forced to draw one of two conclusions: Either I'm a freakin' awesome teacher that nearly everyone I train works out great. OR, most people who put in an honest effort are capable of learning what they need to. It's a long process with learning acquisition - some of the documents you only produce on an annual basis, so it really takes a full year on the job to see everything.

I have only signed a non-disclosure agreement. So all the IP and proporetary knowledge can't be divulged. (Although honestly, the two programs are very different - I don't know how much of what I know of that stuff would have any bearing on the new job.) As for non-competes, our company only has non-competes with the teaming partners on the contract. There is the main contractor and three subcontractors that are teaming partners. They have an agreement not to poach employees from one another. I know of exactly two people in 12 years that have switched teams, and in both cases there were extensive talks among management before those moves happened. Both of them worked out like baseball trades, in that the "star" of the trade went to the primary contractor, and the subcontractor got three minor leaguers in return.

You are correct of course. I just don't know if that one aspect of the job would outweigh the good. Intellectually I know they don't WANT to lay people off. It's not like they come into work every day looking for people to get rid of. If everyone was a good, productive employee, and the contracts were stable, they'd love to keep everyone. That's not the real world though.

 

Well, it turns out that I will NOT be submitting my resignation this week. The meeting went just fine, but there is a hold up - the contract I'd be working on that was sent over for legal review hasn't been signed off on yet. They don't foresee any problems with that eventually happening, and they told me that I have the job once it comes through, but until legal endorses the contract they cannot make me a formal offer.

Estimated time until sign off is impossible to predict with certainty, but they are saying two weeks is a reasonable estimate. So I'm continuing at least until June with my current employer. (Two weeks for the contract to come through, and another two weeks notice to my current employer.)

EDIT: The meeting with the general lasted less than 1 minute. Nevermind not really caring who I was - I doubt he remembered my name by the time he sat down for lunch (and I met him at 11:30). However, I did spend an hour with one of his LTCs, and since that's the guy I'll be working directly with, it was probably more appropriate and productive for us to talk aanyway.

 

Pretty much. I can't understand why I was even required to meet with him. One thing I did find odd - both the general and LTC were wearing suits. Not formal army attire. That's really odd. There was nothing based on what they were wearing that indicated rank.

 

So basically, what you're saying is you didn't have to wear your Village People sailor outfit?

 

Nope. Just his thong.