Multiclass kit cheesiness and a Fighter/Illusionist

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Alright I finally got my hands on a copy of Tales of the Sword Coast and have finally settled on a PC to take through the whole series. I have a few questions first though.

1) How cheesy is giving multi-classed characters kits through either shadowkeeper or the Level 1 NPC mod? For example making Jaheria a Berserker/Druid or a Fighter/Avenger.

2) I have decided on a Gnome Fighter/Illusionist and he'll stay an Illusionist unless there's support that a Gnome Berserker/Mage is legit by 2ed rules. I just need help deciding on weapon proficiencies for him. Right now I'm thinking 2 stars in Long Swords and Flails/Morningstars because I like the concept of morningstars even if there aren't many good ones, and they offer good bludgeoning damage in Tutu (2d4). Then I'd start putting points into Two Weapon Style when a shield starts being less useful. All those choices are decent powerwise, but also personal preference. Anyone got a better suggestion that are solid for the whole saga?

I'm sure more questions are to come, and hopefully I don't change my mind enough to provoke yet another restart.

 

1) I wouldn't have said especially so. On the whole, Multi-class characters are powerful enough, but I don't see adding a kit here and there to be over the top in any way.

2) Long Swords and Flails are solid choices for proficiencies (especially in BGII). As you said, they are decent ones to go for- I'd say you're just fine with them.

 

1) Anywhere from not at all to very cheesy, depending on which one you go for. Some kits are vastly more powerful in certain areas than the non-kit version and combining this with another class truly makes them stand out. The Swashbbuckler is a good example - if you multiclass it with a Fighter you'll end up with lower AC than any warrior-type would ever dream of having. Same with multiclassing a Sorcerer - the biggest weakness of the Sorcerer is inability to multiclass, which can be wiped out this way.

 

It's only cheesy when you start to feel bad about it.

I think of it more as powergaming rather than cheesy - I do it all the time. In fact, sometimes I wish you could put two kits in a multi-class. Mmmm - Kensai/Swashbuckler yumminess.

Can you put a Sorcerer into a multiclass using SK or Level 1 NPCs? I though a Sorcerer wasn't considered a kit, and so was unavailable to do so.

 

Sorcerer is a class by BGII rules, and one with no kits. Mind you, I think you can give a sorcerer kits (like wild mage?) with SK, but I'm not sure.

Giving a multiclassed character a kit can indeed make them increadibly powerful, or just a bit moreso. I think the fighter and mage kits are among the best in terms of balance for this kind of thing. Sure, the illusionist gets more spells and such, but he looses a whole spellschool. It's a good balance. The berzerker isn't as good a balance, but trading ranged weapons for the ability to berzerk if/when you need it, it's pretty fair IMO.

Now, adding the cleric kits to a fighter/cleric, especially the Talos kit, that can be nasty. Similarly for the wild mage to a F/M/C.

 

Dual welding will be a pain if you start using the Staff of the Magi. If you intend to use the SotM, get two-handed proficiencies and short bows. Switching out between them is easier. Spear, halberd and staff are all great proficiencies.

 

I actually intend on modding an existing NPC once I get to SOA into a fighter/thief that focuses on two-handed weapons. I haven't decided which NPC would be the most fitting for the part, but I don't want my Fighter/Illusionist using two-handers, partly because graphically I think it looks way too weird for a gnome to carry around a man-sized quarterstaff (though I enjoyed the story of whoever played as Qualye and did just that), partly because staves aren't exciting in BG1, partly because I want to use a shield until I get the proper two weapon proficiencies, and partly because I like the idea of a gnome wielding a flail/morningstar to bash in the shins of the tallerfolk.

I'm also switching some of the NPCs around to more fun/interesting classes, mostly just for a change of pace. So far I've come up with Imoen being a Jester (with Rogue Rebalancing), Viconia being a Cleric/Mage, I'm considering giving her a kit, but not wild mage, and I want to give Jaheria a kit or make her a straight druid (with a kit), but I can't decide on her yet. I have a few ideas for SOA, but I'm sure I'll change my mind by the time I actually get to SOA. Anyone got any other suggestions for the BG1 NPCs? I'm looking for anything that's fun even if its powerful and slightly out of character as long as it works mechanically and fits into a 3.5E race and class theme (Ex Bard and Paladin could be any race).

Also does anyone know if they're are multiple Robes of Evil Archmagi in Tutu with TotSC? I'm trying to plan out my mage choices and I don't want 2 evil mages if there's only 1 Evil Robe.

 

I'm playing a multi-class half-elf cleric/wild mage and having a blast. Do what's fun for you!

 

I'm planning an all cleric/ cleric multi-class party
Me - 1/2orc cleric/thief
Branwen - human cleric/fighter
anomen - human cleric/fighter
aerie - elf cleric/mage
Wikaede - human cleric of helm
biddekelorakv - dwarf cleric of lathander
that gives me 2 fighters, 1 mage, 1 thief & 6 clerics so plenty of divine power
just don't know if i want to give any of the multi's kits or not.

 

That's a lot of divine power!

You could give Aerie a mage kit. As NOG mentioned earlier mage kits are not terribly overpowered in a multiclass build. Conjurers are as a rule, whether single or multiclassed, but you could go with another specialisation. Alternatively a Cleric/Wild Mage would be an interesting combination

For a bit more variety you could give your fighter/cleric builds a fighter kit. A Cleric/Wizard Slayer would be interesting (RP justification would be that they hate wizard magic so much they're willing to fight it by any means necessary, be it divine power or cold steel).

 

Jaheira certainly makes sense as an Avenger -- suits her personality.

I can see Minsc as a Fighter/Totemic Druid but with "Summon Space Hamster" instead of "Spirit Animal" -- if you could program in the Boo pc to be summoned ....

If you SK in a kit, a fighter/thief becomes godlike. I especially like the fighter/assassin. With Rogue Rebalancing, it's a bit too powerful.

martaug: the cleric/thief becomes unbelievably powerful. The combination of harm and a single trap will kill a dragon. Implosion combined with traps is equally deadly. With UAI, hello magic enhancing gear not normally used by a cleric (Robe of Vecna).

 

I don't see how Rogue Rebalancing would make much difference with an fighter/assassin. The only changes I can remember it does for the Assassin is makes it Evil only and allows it to put 3 stars in dual-weilding, but if you're half fighter you could do it anyways. However, I do see your point about the overpoweredness of a fighter/assassin.

 

Yep after 10th-11th level for the party everything was to easy so i restarted with a new party. That 1 lasted about an hour before i restarted YET again. Geez, i'm a chronic restarter!!

 

Quick question regarding changing the classes around. Is making Edwin a Sorcerer with his extra +2 spells completely unfair, the sorcerer seems powerful enough without another 2 castings for each level. I'm tempted to make a current 18 Wis NPC such as Viconia or Cernd into a Sorcerer to take advantage of Wish Resting, Viconia obviously being the better of these two, but I also like Viconia as a Cleric/Mage.

On that note besides Wild Mage, do any of the specialist mages suit Viconia? I want to make her a cleric/specialist mage for the extra spell, but I don't want to make it too easy on myself. BTW I'm no longer playing as the Fighter/Illusionist, I wanted to play as human or half-elf instead.

 

Viconia as a Cleric/mage could become almost unstoppable. some people knock her because she has a couple low stats. But when I play with her. I've never really had those stats be a problem. I've found that she can be stacked rediculously high with magic resistance. You toss mage on her on top of her weapon and armour choices. Sure You lose a few AC if you still want her to cast her mage spells. But with the elven armours and later the blade singer chain and the like that allow you to still cast. And earlier on some of the stronger mages robes that just require buying. Your not going to be appreciably holding her back from being her own kind of meat shield. Which I have used her for more than once. Specially in later parts of the game with a big shield and powerful armour and a lot of magic resistance and she would gain tricks that some of us first picked up with aerie. Powerful contingency and Sequencer tricks that incorporate not only mage spells but powerful clerical spells as well. Try a chain contingency with her magic resistance that does a full heal on her and unleashes some nasty area affect spell combo on creatures when she hits 10% hp some time.

Cernd... His biggest problem if you combine him with mage will always be that his strength is in his shape changing. Even if you don't use the dispel magic tricks on his claws and the like. You either have to use him like an extra squishy mage from the restrictions of his kit Or you shape change him and he can't cast spells. I'm sure everybody here has heard my arguments over the years that the only thing you have to do to over power his kit is modify it so you can cast while shape changed. Few fights make it worthwhile to switch back and forth between casting and shape changing and he's easy to forget about his casting and just leave shape changed most of the time. Put most of his spell slots to healing spells and they still get used when you heal and rest.

 

Not counting the magic resistance Viconia as a Cleric/Mage is Aerie on steriods stats-wise. I plan on taking Viconia through the entire series and hopefully using the Wisdom tomes on her and transferring the stat-pluses between the two games. I couldn't do that with Aerie even if I preferred Aerie's personality.

When I mentioned Cernd I considered making him a Sorcerer instead of a druid not a druid/mage. Mostly because as a sorcerer none of the stats are really that important, but an 18 Wis does allow him to get the most out of Wish spell. Of the two 18 Wis NPCs in BG2, Cernd is at a huge disadvantage to Viconia to being a Sorcerer, just because his other stats especially Dex are lacking comparitively.

 

I have to disagree, quarterstaff is a useful weapon in BG1. You can get a +1 one very early in the game, and the best thing is, the weapon has a reach. So puny mages with little armor and HP can swing it behind the frontline fighters, relatively safe from harm. My wild mage even used it without proficiency and every now and then a critical hit occured, heh. Its damage is better than daggers. Daggers are sucky for low lvl mages anyway, as you need to get very close (it has the shortest reach) and this will make you suspectible to enemy reteliation. Imoen gets the daggers anyway. Unless you have godlike AC and/or stoneskins, or have a dagger with cool ability, a mage should avoid daggers and use staves in melee combat IMHO.

So staves are not a bad choice for a F/M even. With two handed style it can only get better.