My game became so easy, what to do for the next?

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I know this will sound like a very weird question, but...

OK so far I am having major fun with my Druidic Sorcerer in ToB. My party is so strong, even with all my mods and me playing on insane, battles are easy enough, usually.

My party has 9 million+XP and everybody has the best magical items offered by mods. We are a walking powerhouse of destruction.

My current party:

Big me, Druidic Sorcerer, level 32+, he is one endless spell slinger, of all kind of spells. Has neat Quintessence magical abilities and special DS spells. Has 100+ MR.

MP pal, a half-elf F/M/T. He rocks. He just became a level 18 mage, and he is...freakingly powerful. Mislead, spell immunityivination, Imp.haste. Sneak to the back. Use Critical Strike HLA. Start critical hit-backstabs, 8 attacks/round, all doing 200+ damage. Awesome! He has little MR so he wears cloak of cheese.

Immy. Mage level 28 or such. She is also equally deadly. MR of 30 or better.

Jaheira, can't remember her levels, but she is best tank, totally untouchable. Good MR.

Viccy. SKed her to a F/C. Awesome. Dual-wield FoA+4 and Crom Faeyr, uses GWW, Critical Strike etc. Has 80+ MR. She is the only one who can't have Stoneskins, so I gave her Gargoyle Boots. And Hardiness is neat too. I recently converted her to TN alignment I am SO happy.

Sola. Darn he is powerful. Dual-wields two vorpal axe+5, he kills fast with imp.hasted. With right spells he is invulnerable. All saves are below zero. AC of -20. MR is 127. He is...unbeatable!

OK I beat Imp. Yaga-shura. It was frustrating to see my Horrid Wiltings doing only 5 damage, but I found his weakness. He can't resist cold damage! (some like it hot!) So after 3-4 Cone of Colds, he fell easily.

I had killed Imp. Irenicus with only my PC slightly injured by a lich's consecutive Melf's Acid Arrows. Rest of the party did not even lose a single HP. Believe it or not.

As you see, this party is freakingly powerful, it is fun but I feel like the game is losing its challenge fast. I will tackle Oversight Sendai on insane though, if she can't make me scream I guess there is something very wrong. Then my only hope will be Eclipse fight. Oh and will play the final Ascension battle on insane too, for some nasty suprise!

So I guess, hopefully, I will finish my current game.

I wonder WHAT and HOW should I play for the next?

I want a PC and a party, who are not freakingly powerful like the above example, but also able to hold their owns against all my mods.

I also want to avoid powergaming as much as possible. No 18s for my PC's ability scores, for example. A few very low scores in here and there. Like 6-7s, for RP options.

I also have mods which will bring an XP cap for the chapters, so that party won'T be over-powerful, or some mods which limit the usefullness of uber items like Rof Vecna, Staff of Magi, Crom Faeyr, CFury etc. I didn't install them. Should I? Then I fear beating the game may very well be impossible for my unique BG2.

I need your suggestions. What classes/NPCs do you recommend? I want it HARD. But also POSSIBLE. Also, do you know of any mods which increase the difficulty of battles dramatically, other than those I already have?

What should I do?

Thanks all in advance.

 

I am not SO powerfull yet, but truly saying, ToB becomes a slaughter after finishing heavy-modded SoA. Killing the whole Yaga-Shura's army was a piece of cake.
Last time, I also smashed Saladrex manually before his contingency triggered. Only improved Abazigal was hard enought to enjoy it.
I cannot say a word about Ascension final battle, as it doesn't want to work =:/.

BUT, ritual mod is a great challenge. Time limits hurt. Final dragon battle was also cool.

I would be very thankful for any tips how to make ToB harder.

What's ?

 

Druidic Sorcerer is a very, very powerful class, as is the F/M/T. Add Sola, Viconia as F/C and Jaheira.. now that's immense, no wonder it's easy.

Fer ye' next game ... First of all, I'd simply NOT go with über-items like the Crom Faeyr. There are alot of "alternative" weapons that are quite as good as their bigger brothers. Adjatha the Drinker, for example, can be found early, and is a really good sword for quite a while; Blade of Roses, Heart Seeker, Skullcrusher, Belm, Kundane etc. Give 'em a chance, and they'll work as a charm, even though their name ain't Celestial Fury. I wouldn't limit them with mods, but just not go with them. I never go with the Crom Faeyer - I mean c'mon! It ain't in this world... Sure you sacrifice the Gauntlets of Ogre Strenght, and the Girdle of Frost(?) Giant Strenght, but what you get is still the Crom Faeyr.

There are alot of not so powerful, yet fun classes. The Blade ain't the best of fighters, nor casters, though I've played one through three times, for the fun of it. Stalker is indeed nice. 3x backstab and possibility of dual-wield. Only studded leather obviously gives you less protection, though there are some good ones out there. You wanted it tougher, right? Fun class, played it twice. Most classes are powerful, you just have to play them right. I'm not saying that the Blade, (or Bard for that matter) or the Stalker are weak, they just offer a diffrent approach. Blades can be immense too, I know my first was. It's how you play them. Wild Mage can be fun, it can really screw up any situation. Not harder, just more unsure

Not going with enormous rolls is one more thing. Having average dexterity means less AC. A big disadvantage (look at Keldorn). Less strenght, less dmg, disaster for a pure fighter (etc.). I personally play my characters somewhat "realistic". A pure fighter could very well have 18 str/con, though beeing that strong and tough, doesn't really make it logical to be able to move swiftly, atleast not 18/19.

More'll come to mind later.

 

One (well more than one, really) word for you: Scythesong's guide to blades! Totally changed my view of the Blade.

I once made two threads that might interest you (Covers the same basic idea):

http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/10/4332.html#000000
http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/10/4356.html#000000

By underpowering the (N)PC's you use, you can easilly make BG a whole other game (especially on insane and with some cheesy mods ).

EDIT: I just spotted that you have yourself posted in those threads already. I'll soon be taking on BG2 with a likewise party (had to ditch BG as I haven't got the game anymore ).

 

@Olimikrig

Ofcourse, how can I forget your strange party Olimikrig? It was fun, though I want a party combination I would work hard to be effective (I like challenge), I do not want to weaken uber characters like you tended to do.

@Warmonger

Eclipse fight is a part of Sola romance. The fight is very, very hard or so I heard. It is considered to be the hardest battles of all mods. Basically, you fight a party consisted of Kensai, an evil Paladin, a Sorcerer, Druid and some more. They are epic+ levels and carry good stuff. The fighters are buffed up to the max, they stack HLAs, they are all imp. hasted and regenating for example. Casters love force-casting high levl stuff. Like Dragon Breaths for instance.

What is the biggest deal, is the short periods of 'Eclipses'. During the fight, total eclipses occur, it is like a Time Stop which only affects PC's party, ALL enemies are free to kill party. Eclipse occurs very frequently if you play on insane. (every other round?) This is sick, paladin will dispel your protections with his swords, and all buffed up, imp.hasted fighters will slaughter all while casters enjoy emptying their spell books. Sola is immune to Eclipses for the fight, which may be crucial. Sounds like a fun battle! Can'T wait to try it!

Anyway, I am thinking about party combinations.

Me, I will try a Cleric/Mage multi-class for the first time. Sure, sue me, I finished the game with a DUAL-CLASS C/M, and now even playing an abomination like DS. I simply love combining arcane magic and priestly magic. The reason of being MC is, hopefully the PC will be weaker, and wont be able to cast uber 8-9th level spells soon. The annoying fact is, once a mage learns TimeStop and Imp.Alacrity, he can easily beat every other tough battle. I want to counter this in this manner.

About stats, I will use the first roll, without any re-rolling! I will decrease pyschial stats as much as possible!

STR 6
DEX 7
CON 8
for example. Then I will add little points to INT and WIS. I guess 14-15 should be adequette. I want a high CHA, but not weirdly high like 18+s. Oh, whatever is left.

I guess this will be painful. With 6STR my PC will carry so little stuff.

Hmm I wanna add one mult-player character too, as usual. Let me see. I added a pure kensai and a F/M/T before. This time, what should I go for?

Arcane Fist! Yes! The class seems so weak at the start, and even in their max they can't use any weapon and their fists are only +3s. Should be fun. And I have oversight monk HLAs which are cool and requires strategy to be effective. Mage spells are only a small bonus.

Then the next. Hmm...

I will definitely take Immy and Jaheria! I just can NOT play BG2 without these, I love their personalities so much. However, I will make small changes to them.

I want to SK Jaheria and Immy.

Jaheria..hmm, should I make her a ranger/cleric? This is too tempting, as she always used heaviest shields in my games, seeing her dual-wield could prove to be fun! But, too powerful I fear. What do you suggest? Should I change her into a pure single-class druid? What about a good kit? What do you suggest?

Ah and Immy. She definitely begs for a kit. Should I add swashbuckler kit or make her a conjurer? BTW I also have many other spiffy thief kits, like soulknife, acrobat etc. I may turn Immy into one and add some more thief levels maybe? I don't want to add power, I only want to make things look cooler. Sounds like exciting.

Then, what NPCs should I take?

I fancy Jan. NEVER took him with me, not even for a moment. So I should give him a try. Everybody says he is so funny.

I want...SAREVOK in ToB! I redeemed Viccy so my poor brother is next assignment! I guess it will be hard and challenging. I will not make him swear an oath. So if I fail to redeem him, something nasty may happen in Ascension final battle, or so I guess.

Should I dual Sarevok? For increased difficulty and fun? Sounds like a cool idea!

That is it. Should I get another until ToB? I doN't like so, so my party will consist of C/M, Arcane Fist, Jaheria and Jan until Asylum? Oh sounds like it will be hard! At least!

Now that I think of it, a Wizard Slayer Valygar soon to be dualled into a thief. Maybe..or a monk Cernd? Or is his shapeshifter form even more pathetic?

What do you think?

 

I have to download Solaufein mod!.
So I hope my party will look like:
Me - main beater, swashbuckler dealing 40+ damage 8 times each round, with AC below -20... He will be immune to timestop.
Kachiko - Second dual-wielding beater + powerfull wizard in one. Immune to timestop.
Viconia - next beater, Dual-wielding Anti-undead mace +5 and club of bashing setting strenght to 25. He has strongly reduced casting time, so mass healing will rock.
Aerie - Toolbox, dual-wielding Flail of Ages (?) and SECOND Club of Bashing XD.
Ha'erdalis - Dual wielding some kind of crap, as Bard's Bane and any other stuff I'll get. He also is high-level caster and WILL get a lot of spells. Anyway, he's funny.
Soulafein - whoever is he, he'll replace Yoshimo. I hope sixth dual-wielder :].

BTW, What happens to Kachiko after Yoshimo's betrayal?

Silverstar - I cannot decide to run crapy PC, as Iproved Irenicus' Dungeon was totally insane. I spent 6 game days on first level.

Once I dualed Sarevok into wizard. It worked!

[ February 06, 2006, 18:05: Message edited by: Warmonger ]

 

Heh, I was able to beat Imp. Ilych in a few hours of load. I can certainly struggle more!

And a C/M with crap STR DEX CON, is not a crap character as he will still cast spells, no matter what. Hopefully.

Your team seems powerful enough. How is it possible you will be immune to TS? And who is Kachiko, where can I get one?

 

^Kachiko is overpowered Kensai-Mage from TS. She'll meet U at the end of Irenicus' dungeon.

Immunity from timestop is given by Improved Asylum party - you've written in on your own . But first I must SOMEHOW reach 3mln xp in order to set Spike Trap to kill Breudayel.

 

Oh yes. Good luck then. I wanna beat them too, but...

 

Play the recently debated wizard slayer and report the result back to us.

Anyway to answer your question, here are some ideas to make your game reasonably harder without complicating your game more than it already is. I'm not a big fan of purposely weakening your pc and/or npcs myself.

1. Simply play through tactics and ascension with original in game items, kits and npc as it is ? This mean no item upgrade mod, various mod-shop items, impasylum party item etc. This is what im doing atm and the game does feel reasonably harder. Personally I dont have the self control needed to prevent myself from using items such as crom and cf, and imho they dont make the game that much easier anyway. Also no EoU's magic armor/ring either, Minsc is currently getting beat up much much more without the usual stacking of reddragon+dual ring of conservation+CoP+2.

2. Only multi class mage. Much of the solution to improved battles lie with high level arcane spells, and it would be interesting to beat say improved irenicus without timestop, I imagine that pride dragon would finally last longer than a few secs.

3. Play TuTu! Seriously all your powergaming knowledge will be useless before the might that is bg1. I finished it for the first time yesterday and I can honestly say that first run through bg1 was quite abit harder than my usual run through tactics. Figuring out how to get through a mine of kobolds that kill your best fighter in 2 hit max, figuring out the best use out of your MMissile (notice the singular form), was really thrilling the first time through.

 

You're right! I can do this by multiple normal traps. I'll go there as soon as beat Firkraag, which is last big quest I can finish.

 

Hmm nice ideas. I don't have BG1 so TuTU is no-no.

Multi-mages OK, though I will have to get Immy, but I will get her very later so her level will be lower.

Do I really want to see Dragon of Pride alive more than a few secs? Maybe. Maybe not. But the battle was frustratingly easy, so...

 

@ olimikrig

I've indeed read it before. Good guide to a good class. What I meant was that they can only have up to level 6 spells, and their THAC0 is less than a fighter, weaker in that point of view. Sorry for expressing myself unclear.

The low stat PC seems like a good idea indeed. I usually make my PnP characters with worthless stats.

Happy huntin'!

 

Why not solo? Something like a F/T or just a Fighter would be fun. There's your completely new gaming experience.

 

Solo pure fighter?

Now actually I remember that some guy was soloing his purest fighter through Ascension. He kept telling the story, and with cool screenshots as well. It was nice enough! He actually managed to beat final battle with only one level 40 purest warrior. :applauds:

But to tell you the truth, I am afraid. I am scared. How can a pure level 8 fighter beat Imp. Ilych and his buddies? I like things being hard, but not impossible.

I CHANGED my mind, I will make my PC a Chorister, a bard kit with healing spells, and some cleric spells. I hope it will be fun, as:
-He is much like a C/M I like to play, BUT:
-He will gain levels fast
-He won't be able to cast high level mage stuff which makes EVERY battle all the easier (Time Stop, Imp. Alacrity)
-But he will be able to cast up to 8th level, I have EoU's casting progression which is cooler.
-With tons of caster stuff thanks to my mods, and UAI, he will be a decent caster. He can still cast Time Stop, via Project Image and scrolls, but IAlacrity is banned to him, which is a good thing. ı think.
-New HLAs introduced by Song&Silence seems so cool! AND bards no longer get way too cheesy trap HLAs, which is a very good thing.
-Finally, my PC will be able to use ANY weapon. I really fancied using shortbows and nice arrows, like arrows of ice, detonation, dispelling etc. A cleric/mage was limited to BORING slings. A DS could use darts and daggers but no bows. Well...A Chorister can use any weapon, and with UAI can use ANYthing.

Well and my MP created pal will be Arcane Fist, another Bard kit. Should I also get Heardalis? Are three bards too much for a party? But each will be specialised in different jobs.

Chorister:Cast, cast and use bows, heal, buff, summon, sing when neccesary or has nothing left to do.

Arcane Fist:Buff yourself and go punch baddies! Use cool beyond words Oversight MONK HLAs, like TigerStrike, DragonFist etc, plus good old Stunning Blows and :gasp: fearsome Quivering Palms.

Heardalis:Well, he is a blade, he will have cool weapons! And abilities! And dual-wield! Offensive Spin! Yay!

What do you think?

 

Haer Dalis would be an excellent addition, I'd say. I don't know anything about the Chorister kit so I can't really comment but it sounds good to me. For kicks, do it with just those three.

 

You mean, only those three bards?

While the very idea is funny and intruguing, I really don'T think they alone will live to tell their tales, in my heavily modded on insane game.

 

^Hey, I hope it's possible. More xp, lots of possibilities, use of any item; cash, sex & free chips in 13 countries of middle Africa.
Try it, especially while U find game easy so far. Running 3 Bards doesn't seem to be suicidal, once U manage to make ends meet.

 

I say go for it. If a solo fighter can beat it, three bards should be a walk in the park. Or something like that...

 

Now you guys REALLY encourage me to do so.

Problems:

-I will miss romances. I love Jaheira's romance and her rewards so much, though I did it two times before so...Unless there is some weird Haer romance my PC'S heart will be empty. OR should he love my MP created Arcane Fist, in RP ofcourse? Should I make the latter female then? Or go with...Sola's way... Oh this is simply hillarious! Two bards with different tastes and crazy Haer'Dalis...Nasty ideas...Spank me please!

-I can'T stand to leave Immy alone in the asylum, I really love her and want to care for her. What should I do?

-I want to try to redeem Seravok too like I did to Viccy in my current game. I hope it would be suitable challenge.

-Bard XP tables advance fast so these guys will hit XP cap so early, perhaps early in ToB, so they will stop advancing and I don't like playing without no-advancement. (remembers IWD2 )

I had level 50 fix but it corrupts Arcane Fist kit, after level 40 the kit turns into a pure Monk and loses spell-casting ability. So I uninstalled it, cap is lvl 40, with 8Million XP, which is 24 Million XP for three chaarcters, very easy enough to accumulate in my mod-heavy game. My current party members each has 9million XP, I have 6 people, and I just recently beat Imp.Yaga-shura. So you do the math...

Any thoughts? Help me once again!