Neutering nations

Remove all ads!

This topic got started in the "Is God Evil?" post, and I was tempted to make a comment. But it'd be quite off topic, so I've decided to make the question in a new topic.

Should nations be neutered? Which ones? And why?

If you want my opinion, I believe that we should practice population control like China does. Start off which encouragements that you shouldn't overpopulate Earth, and eventually work it into a law or two (not directly, but, say, by taxing families more with three or more children).

I think that while you are suppressing people's rights to have children, it isn't a bad idea to stop world overpopulation. Better sooner than later.

 

Why not exterminate ourselves? We will do the "future" a favour

 

So why haven't you started already?

 

Not my problem the world is overpopulating, I´ll be dead in 70 years

 

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say. You say we should exterminate ourselves to prevent overpopulation. So why haven't you killed yourself?

 

Overpopulation is a myth. The world's population is expected to peak at 9 billion in 2070 and decline to a stable level. I can find more references when I have some more time, but this is the best high-level summary that I have handy:
Nicholas Eberstadt

This is another good overview that anyone concerned about the racist "3rd world must die" branch of environmentalism should read:

Slaying the doomsayers

It's about time people stopped using Malthus' poor understanding of population biology as an excuse for hatred, especially of the despicable, "I have more right to reproduce than you do" variety.

Incidentally, C'Jakob, if you knew more about how China executes its population control policies I doubt you would agree with them. Drowning female children, 3rd-trimester abortions with no anaesthetic as punishment for pregnancy, and having to report all sexual activity and menstruation to your employer are some of the highlights. And the ruling classes have as many children as they ever did- it's the farmers and lower-income families who are punished.

 

Yeah, I was aware (being Chinese-American) that Chinese families did kill their own children if they happened to be female. But I wasn't aware of the other stuff you said. I any case, I think I will have to say that I take back:

I also understand that the population of Russia is actually projected to decrease in the future, because of the abortions they have. I am not saying that the third world, or any other country in the world, has no right to reproduce. I do believe that it is important to look ahead in the future, be it decades or centuries, and see how many people there are.

That is, if we haven't destroyed ourselves by then. But I try to be optimistic.

[ March 17, 2003, 02:20: Message edited by: C'Jakob ]

 

Neutering people takes away their right to reproduce pretty effectively. I understand you to mean you are in favour, then, of making voluntary birth control available rather than neutering or sterilising people. I don't have a problem with that - when women have more control over the number of children they have they tend to be more empowered within a society. It's hardly the same thing as "neutering a nation", which implies both a lack of choice on the part of the participants, and an ultimate goal of wiping a culture off the face of the earth.

I knew you were too nice a person to be advocating the things I condemn in China.

 

I agree with Sprite on the overpopulation myth. I remember seeing some statistics way back in college -- the upshot of the deal was that the world's food production capacity would comfortably feed the world. The issue is distribution -- and no, I'm nowhere near being a Commie -- the distribution problem has to do with corruption in every political system, not any particular system's flaws. I've heard horror stories of charitable food shipments being hijacked by armies, or just sitting and rotting because warlords forbid its distribution because it might feed their enemies.

That said, I have no problem with voluntary birth control (pills, condoms, vasectomies, etc -- not abortion, though, and see the huge topic from several months ago on that one, I'm just stating my opinion here, not gonna debate it) but involuntary birth control as described by Sprite is morally repugnant.

Hey, I'll even admit it, after the big surprise of Child #3, love her though I do, I went and saw a skilled swordsman, and his Vorpal Blade went Snicker-Snack (to paraphrase Lewis Carroll) and now, well, no more surprises from that department!

 

C'Jakob, I was saying that if you want to prevent a overpopulation, you should kill a few people

I can´t really care about overpopulation, actually I do but I can´t judge which side is better

 

There was a great thread a year ago on overpopulation. Some of you will be interested in reading it.
HERE

 

Aw, shucks, Sprite.

Morgoth, if you (seriously) believe in killing a few people, isn't it a tad hypocritical to still be around? Kinda like that Church o' Euthanasia thing. Or maybe that's stretching it a bit too far...

 

No, I dont seriously believe killing at all, save self defence

 

Aside from the myriad arguments concerning our ability to deal with a population expansion -- (and I must say I agree with Shralp, although I have not had the opportunity to read through that thread; I think we could have handled it) -- most developed countries are now facing a population implosion. I can't recall where I read the following statistics; I've done a bit of searching and cannot find them again. Maybe I'll come up with it later and edit in a link. Some numbers may not be precise, as I'm going on memory here.

The US birth rate per household is 2.1; because of child mortality percentages, this is the necessary rate to maintain population levels. So the US population is currently holding steady at zero growth. European countries, however, are about to start losing quickly; France is at 1.4 births per household. England is 1.7; Russia is at a critical low of 1.3 birth rate. The main countries that are above the repopulation mark are third-world countries, specifically Muslim ones. The highest of these is somewhere around 6 or 7, IIRC.

Overall, the population expansion has pretty much come to a halt. Starvation in third-world countries is still a problem, but then, it always has been.