New party creation help please

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I would like to make A four char party, all drow, evil aliment, with no multi-class penalties. thought this would be fun to play but I'm having trouble coming up with a balanced squad. any tips would be a help.
my first party made it through but it was poorly constructed. I spent lots of time hidding behind meet shields in hof mode, wasn't much fun.

 

A drow wizard, or a Drow sorcerer would be a good inclusion in the party. Also a cleric would have to be a must. At least one of the other two would have to be a tank, either fighter or barbarian, the final character would be either a tank, or another spell caster..

 

Personally, the slow advancement of an all-Drow party is a bit of a turn-off. How about making the Tanks as Humans?

Unless of course, you're doing it for the challenge and RP value. But there's RP value sticking a human in there, too. He could be the sex slave of the evil Drow sorceress.

 

Well, a drow party just has to have a female cleric and male wizard Both single-classed.

The cleric should be a Stormlord of Talos with the following feats as must-have: Spell Focus: Evocation (2), Spell Penetration (2), Scion of Storms, Spirit of Flame. Purely power-mongering priestess. If you prefer to keep her out of the melee, you could giver her some good INT and employ talking skills and/or other skills you would like to have.

A drow wizard, however, would be more subtle than that. Spell Penetration (2) still, but Enchantment rather than Evocation. Spell Focus: Necromancy (2) might fit as well. As a wizard, he will get bonus feats every five levels, so you will probably have Spell Focus: Evocation (2) and Spirit of Flame anyway. Always handy.

Now you need someone to take care of the traps and some meatshield, too. With four characters, there's no place for an archer in your team, and you need mass damage dealers, so I would think twice before taking any dexterity-based fighters. One two-handed and bow tank fighter, one ranger/rogue finessed character.

One of the tricks you could use is giving Search and Disarm job over to your wizard who is going to have a might INT bonus to those skills. If you get him 2 levels in rogue class, it'll be even better for your skills.

If you think you're going to get away with it, you can make your wizard like this:

STR 6
DEX 20
CON 16
INT 20
WIS 12
CHA 6

Explanation: you won't be using any armour at any point. Armoured Arcana would be a waste. You'd better Expertise ASAP and start making an uber caster of yourself. 20 DEX and 20 INT will allow you to hone a good number of skills on a decent level. Get two rogue levels and switch to wizard for good. If you don't like hiding behind summoned creatures, Diviner is for you - the only opposite school being Conjuration.

Should you follow this path, you could take two regular damage-intense tanks instead of a ranger/rogue build. Or a melee-intense priestess with 4 levels of fighter, whom you would treat almost like a fighter with spells, ie max STR & CON, full plate, Weapon Specialisation, Cleave etc. It would be a secondary priest and a secondary tank in a party of four, so she would have to cast spells during heavy combat, so ou'd better go by a one-handed weapon and shield. Feats enhancing Concentration (on top of your great CON) might also prove useful. Take one level in Battleguard of Tempus for free Weapon Focus Axe and then 4 levels in fighter, specialising in axe. This way, your bonus fighter feats can be spent on getting Cleave on character level 2, for example. Hint: bonus feats for fighters can be spent on spell focuses and similar feats useful to casters. Focuses are a good way to offset lower casting level.

When you're done with the choices, we can move on to discussing the stats and other such.

Note: if you think you're able to pull it off, you can take priestess in all tank slots. Just make them all, or some of them, like fighters with barely enough wisdom to cast spells allowed by their level. Fighter levels are generally discouraged should you go for 3 priestesses and a rogue/wizard. That's because your party would rely heavily on magic even for melee buffs and that requires a good casting level for good effects.

[ April 28, 2004, 02:23: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

Well lets start by saying that this party is intended to start in normal and go through to HoF. It is a four char party because low charecter number = higher EXP and should offset the ECL(I hope)so i can still get to lvl 17 or 18 by end of normal mode. let me know if this is wishful thinking.
Now about the char's, I really like the idea of the rouge(2)wizard(X), and will without doubt need a full time cleric.(thanks for the feat and skill tips as thats where I get lost) no doubt I will need at lest one tank. I would also like to have a sorcerer just because HoF mode seems to be spell demanding and(again correct me if I'm wrong)I just don't know if cleric with a small amount of spells would be any help.(I did read "jupp" on melee in HoF but it just sounds like to much work keeping all thoes buffs up) But now i'd have a sorcerer(?)cleric(?) and now would need my full time cleric to handle melee overflow to keep the bad guys off my wizard.let me know what you think and don't hesitate to correct any mistaken assumptions I've made here as I'm just a newbe

[ April 28, 2004, 05:10: Message edited by: ugly ]

 

If you have your cleric summon 5 animate undead, you can create a decent shield in HOF that'll counter a lot of enemies. That frees you wizard up to have more offensive level5 spells. A cleric is indispensible in HOF. You wont get by without one.

 

takara, if you read ugly's post you will see that he does NOT want to play with beef ( monsters ) animate dead is not an option then.

 

Ok, how about this.
sorcer(18)dreadmaster(12)
STR 3
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 18 (Is this a waste? Only did it for skill points.)
WIS 15
CHA 20
Sormlord (x)
STR 12
DEX 12
CON 16
INT 12
WIS 18
CHA 10 (Not meny undead is it worth having?)
fighter(X)battlegaurd(1)
STR 18
DEX 16
CON 18
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 6
WIZARD(x)ROGUE(2)Sarting on rogue to get the skill points.
STR 6
DEX 20
CON 16
INT 20
WIS 12
CHA 6
What do you guys(and girls)think?
PS Fixed typo(thanks crom)

[ April 28, 2004, 23:31: Message edited by: ugly ]

 

Why 18 levels on the sorcerer ? if you take 2 levels more, you get 2 other 9th level spells, so instead of one, you will have three. I think at least one level more should be considered... I dont know what you think, but personally , I really dont like having chars with STR below 8. 8 gives them 50 lbs of weight they can carry, which is just fine I think. If you go lower than 6, they cant even wear their very own equipment, without bulls strength or other strength enhancing items.. It seems your sorcerer is the talker, then you really do need a lot of skill points yes ( spellcraft, diplomacy, but bluff and intimidate cost 2 points per sorcerer level ! This mean you wont buff intimidate until you get your cleric levels going. ). Why not lowering wis with 3 on your sorc and take the iron will feat ? You can spend those three points elsewhere then.

Stormlord : Drop the CHA, if you are not using it for undeads as cleric, then why bother at all ? Put at least one more point in dex, since some feats require 13 dex, Im not sure about the int, what skills does a cleric need ? Concentration and MAYBE spellcraft ( only 10 to get the spell feats with resistance and extra damage ), so I think 8 will be good enough already. It will take a while then, but you have you points spend then on other things, like CON and STR.

I dont know how you got the stats on the 3rd one, IIRC you get 76 points standard, add 4 more since you are drow and you get a total of 80. Your character has 82 points so you should drop something, I would drop dex to 14 since the better armors wont give more than +2 DEX bonus so its only for your saving throw then.. INT ? What do fighters need int for ? Just put 4 ranks into concentration and then you are pretty much done. You can put points into intimidate, but he doesnt have the charisma for it to do it very good. I suggest putting the int points and 2 dex into Wisdom, having high wisdom as a fighter never hurts.. Besides, a drow cant have more than 16 CON when he starts, so that stat cant be correct either.

Your wizard rogue has no WIS stat ? Judging from the stats its should be 12, seems to me those stats are okay

Before you develop this, think carefully on who will do what and think of what feats you want to use. Low INT characters can do only 1 thing, your high INT characters must do pretty much everything. The wizard rogue has to search, disarm traps and more..

 

Ok, to answer your questions Crom,(and ask a few)I was thinking lvl 18-lvl 12 because I would get A lvl 9 spell and the all important heal witch I cant see having enough of! thats also the reason for the 15 WIS.(10+spell lvl to cast or is that only a rule for wizards?)This way I only have to put one ability point into it the rest can go to CHA. On the STR issue you are 100% correct I brought her into a game and she only has a 5 lb. limit so that wont work.


Stormlord
Are you saying that turn undead is not a useful tool? Or are you saying that I don't have enough CHA to make it worth anything? The undead in normal are way easy and hiding behind 6 boneguard in HoF got to boring so I didn't make it back to the graveyard to find out what they are like. on her INT, does it affect anything other than skill points? I though INT went to one of the saves. IS spellcraft a needed skill for a cleric?(I know so little about this. The last AD&D game I had was pool of raidence for the commador64 needless to say that was a very long time ago)

fighter(X)battleguard(1)
Same as above I thought INT was one of the save modifiers. Yes DEX 18 for the saves incase I have to drop fireballs on top of him. Being my only real tank he will always be first in last out.

wizard(X)rogue(2)
Got that one right 'cause the stats are from Chevalier's post! lol

Any tips/hints on character development is very welcome. i never did find the rule book so I'm learning as i go mostly thanks to SP

 

You are correct about your cleric, concerning the WIS. Yes heal is quite important, I didnt see that.

Im saying that turn undead isnt all that great indeed. Int is not a saving throw, it is ONLY skill related and it gives some extra dialogue.
Like I said, spellcraft is only needed as a cleric if you intend to do the Feats spirit of flame etc. If you dont want to, concentration is the only skill you need as a cleric with low CHA.

 

Well, fighter already has more feats than he can spend in any reasonable fashion, so there's no need for a single Battleguard level, really. So, either go fighter(4)/Battleguard(x) or just one of those classes full time.

Talking skills are by no means indispensible, but they're nice to have. To get most of stat-depending dialogue, you need about 16 in INT, WIS and CHA, although there are options that require more. In all reality, you'll do well without them - and there's probably always more XP for kills than for talking unless you play solo and don't get any kill XP anymore. Also, there's no situation where talking saves your life, either.

If you want the options, though, it could be good to employ a sorcerer for that. With a six character party bard would do, but not in a four.

The sorcerer you have should be single-classed. There's no use taking cleric levels as that would only delay and tax your spells in both classes. I say: sorcerer full time.

This would make one sorcerer, one rogue/wizard, one cleric and one fighter/barbarian.

Still, I would go with a six character party if you want to play in HoF mode afterwards. That is because you'll hit level 30 anyway. I don't know if you'll get enough XP to get a drow to level 30, though, so if you insist on getting level 30 a party of four might be a good solution. But only then. I can't help you further as I haven't played HoF.

 

What about giving the rogue 10WIS and 8STR as wisdom isnt any good for a wizard.


BTW crom Bluff is a class skill for sorcerers i am sure cause my sorcerer takes it and imtimidate already wastes enough skill points. But i may be wrong though i doubt it.

 

If you are doing a pure drow sorcerer, I used these stats :

STR 6 ( needed to do a lot of bulls strength, even on this one.. )
DEX 16
CON 16
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 20

I took concentration and spellcraft only as skills.

If you take aasimar however, you can take 1-3 levels of paladdin to get much better saving throws and some extra hp ( plus a ton of feats )

Goon : Bluff is a cross class for sorcerers, so they need to spend 2 skill points on bluff to get 1 extra point effectively.

 

then how can my 16 INT sorc take Diplomacy, Concentration, Bluff, Intimidate(intimidat is every second level all other skills every level)?

 

Well if I make my sorcerer full time then I would need to split my fighter. do u think a fighter(13)(seven extra feats)battelguard(17)(will get one lvl 9 spell) with stats like so
STR 18
DEX 20
CON 16
INT 5 (just concentration on skills)
WIS 16
CHA 5
could still be an effective tank/decoy? I think I would need the extra feats from fighter lvl's to make him useful as A tank and I know I'll need morn than one character with heal in HoF.

 

Goon,
1 point to Concentration
1 point to diplomacy
that means 2 points left if you are not human.
2 points to bluff
if you are human, you have 1 point left now, that means once every two levels you can take one level of intimidate.

My guess is that your sorc is human

 

Nope guess again my sorc is a drow(the best race for a sorc cause the +2 INT is as good as skill points and +2CHA and +2DEX better than a feat not to mention magic resistance) so there your wrong.

However i checked in my manual and it turns out its only a class skill for rogue and bard(sorry for saying you were wrong) however i seem to have a very good glitch/bug(yay). I just leveled up my sorc to see the skill points and everything and bluff is listed as only taking 1 skill point.
Dont ask me why my computer thinks bluff is a class skill for my sorcerer but i aint complaining about it.

 

Back-row caster
Sorcerer[x] (M/F)
08-20-13-13-06-20
Since you dont want your main caster to take an XP penalty thru the game, this one will perforce have to be pure class.

Back-row caster
Rouge[3]/Wizard[x] (M)
10-20-12-20-12-06
This poor guy will have to do it all from finding traps to hoicking fireballs. If you want to make him a better archer then add 4 Fighter levels to specialise in bows. Though this decreases your spell DC you can use all those extra feats to make him more powerful. The third Rouge level is so that you have evasion and Uncanny Dodge, which may come in useful when you have to sheild the sorcerer from a sneak.

FrontLine fighter
Fighter[4]/Barbarian[2]/StormLord of Talos[x] (F)
14-16-12-06-18-14
Weapon specialisaton, greater speed and Uncanny Dodge coupled with the spells she has make her a deadly force.

Frontline fighter
[1]
DreadMaster of Bane[11]\Fighter[x](F)
16-14-15-13-16-06
This lady has just enough spells to HEAL herself which may just come in handy in tough fights. A couple of barbarian levels wont hurt, but will have to be taken at the end to escape XP penalties.

[2]
Paladin of Ilmater/PainBearer of Ilmater (F)
16-14-15-13-16-06
Since she will gain a total of +2Str and +2Con from the lost followers quest, those 4 points can be spent else where if you wish. However you seem to be against an LG Drow ...

[3]
Monk[x] (M/F Tank)
12-20-13-13-16-06
Why?
Why not?

 

From what you're suggesting I'd definetely take the monk, though it will be difficult in the beginning...

What's with the 'Lost Followers' Quest? You gain ability points or what?

Should give him 18 wisdom instead of the intelligence. Monk doesn't need no intelligence, he just kicks ass.

It seems a good power party, but if pressed it is too spell-heavy for the beginning.