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hey guys!

it's been awhile since i've played the game, I've been thinking of a new party that I could take until HoF, and I wanted to make as few characters as possible, so far I've decided to create 5 chracters, but I'm thinking of going with four, I want to know how big is the difference experience wise and gameplay wise.

Here's my party

1. Half-orc fighter(4)barbarian(x)
battleguard of tempus (?)
-he would be my party's main tank and I'm thinking if I should add battleguard or I should split battleguard(15)and barbarian(15) or I should just stick with barbarian(x)fighter (4)

2. Human fighter(4)stormlord of talos(26)
-he'd serve as the party's main buffer with a nice addition of evocation spells. He's purpose is to buff character 1 and the party.

3. Aasimar Druid(30)
-I just wanted to see how strong a druid can be, I'm just worried that the shapechange icons won't appear, due to a bug eventhough I'm already patched.

4. Tiefling rogue(10)wizard(20)
-I want to make a rogue which can cast illusion spells and backstab people, but now I learned that weapon finesse only applies on attack rolls and not damge rolls so I'm thinking of adding fighter(4)

5.Drow Sorcerer(30)
-I thought of making him a human or an Aasimar but since he's playing a full time sorcerer I thought it would be much cooler with Drow benefits, he's the add-on to the party, I'm thinking of dumping him but I'm worried I won't have enough firepower, and other buff spells.

So there you go, I would really like to know how much difference is there in a 4 man party and a 5 man a party when regarding expereince. Thanks!!!

 

Depends on how you want to play a HoF game. Most people prefer to use a lot of summoning spells there, since summoned monsters are very tough. For such a party you need a cleric and 2 wizs and or sorcs, then summon creatures lots.

The other way is to actually use your chars to fight in HoF, for that I'd go with a

- Fighter4/Barbx (more HP and tireless rage is cool),
- Monk (at lvl20 gets 20/+1 resistance-more useful than you think since many monsterlike creatures don't have magical weapons and monk gets a lot of other goodies)
- Cleric (Symbol of Hopelessness, Holy Word, Tremor, Summoning)
- Wizard (Buffs,Malison, Wail of the Banshee)
- Sorcerer (party diplomat,lots of spell ammo, buffs, Wail of the Banshee)

Maybe take a Ftr4/Paladinx (or a Paladin2/Ftrx) as well if you decide to just play a 6 player game.

Also it's important that this party is of good alignment(any), otherwise a very cool Holy Word spell will stun your people as well. Use a Malison+Wail of the Banshee to instantly kill enemys while they're stunned . With such a party I beat the game in HoF almost without summons(my Cleric had enough Holy word spell ammo for just about every fight).

A comment on your team:
I believe a Druid and Rogue are useless, just give pickpocket to Monk, and Find/Disable traps to Wizard. I doubt druid shapeshifting is any good in HoF anyway, may be some other player has more info.

-- Leo

 

Barbarian tops out a L20. Any less is robbing yourself of the effectiveness of a great grunt. If you take 8 levels of a spellcaster, preferably Cleric or Druid, you can take the elemental feats for some added protection.
I personally dont care for Fighter[4] as I prefer independence from 'Weapon Specialisation'.

Why not make a Drow instead of Tiefling Rouge[10]/ Wizard[20]?

Pure Sorcerer or Monk are ok, but pure Druid cant be much use.

 

Thanks for the replies, I know that pure druid kinda stinks but I just thought that their spells are kinda cool, anyway I made up my mind and here's my new 4 man party.

1. Half-orc fighter(4)barbarian(8)battleguard(18)
2. Human fighter(4)stormlord(26)
3. Aasimar druid(30)
4. Drow rogue(1)monk(20)sorcerer(9)

Here's some new questions for each character

1. Should I maximize strength or wisdom for additional spells?

2. Is a dreadmaster really better?

3. Are there any cool staves in the game because I was planning on giving him (wf) with it.

4. Is my character gonna survive with a constitution of 1? He literally has 1 hit point, I wanted to max out each stat because he has to do a lot of stuff, and should I max out charisma or wisdom for ac?

Anyway here is my rogue(1)monk(20)sorcerer(9)

strength 16
dexterity 18
constitution 1
intelligence 9
wisdom 18
charisma 18

In case your wondering why I didn't replace sorcerer with wizard, well that's because I will lose the ability to advance in monk class, meaning I'd have to finish the 20 monk levels first before I can make him a wizard, and being a monk of the dark moon ables him to advance in sorcerer class simultaneoulsy.

I hope for more advice, thanks

[ December 05, 2004, 04:21: Message edited by: Dias ]

 

1. Half-orc fighter(4)barbarian(8)battleguard(18)
2. Human fighter(4)stormlord(26)
3. Aasimar druid(30)
4. Drow rogue(1)monk(20)sorcerer(9)

>First of all I don't think this is a good HoF party. I must assume that u will be using the "summon lots" tactic (since u didn't give any info on your HoF tactic). In HoF the biggest problem is how to kill enemies, since they have ALOT of HP. Basically and IMO, damage is all but useless. Only Instant-death and disabling spells(especially the ones with no save like a Holy Word, and Symbol of Hopelessness) are of any use.

Forget meteor shower etc it simply doesn't do enough damage even to kill a HoF Goblin in Targos

For that reason a Druid is not useful, since the only useful spells that he has are summoning and Finger of Death.
For the same reason a sorcerer(9) is also not that good a choice, but you probably added it to the mix to get a Knock spell.

Also your lacking heavy artillery. Where's a Wiz/Sorc with Wail of the Banshee(Wiz/Sorc level 9)? That spell I believe is absolutely necessary to beat HoF with any reasonable success. The spell instantly kills any opponent within range if a save is failed. So if you use a Malison and have a high DC on spells, a lot of enemies will die instantly regardless of their HP.

Also this party won't be of the same alignment(Druid is Neutral, Talos Evil), which disables a Holy Word spell outright since the spell stuns anyone of alignement, different than cleric's for 1 round (no save). 99,9% of enemys are evil(like demons,humans) or neutral(like animals).

Anyway here is my rogue(1)monk(20)sorcerer(9)

strength 16
dexterity 18
constitution 1
intelligence 9
wisdom 18
charisma 18

In case your wondering why I didn't replace sorcerer with wizard, well that's because I will lose the ability to advance in monk class, meaning I'd have to finish the 20 monk levels first before I can make him a wizard, and being a monk of the dark moon ables him to advance in sorcerer class simultaneoulsy.

>I'm not sure this char fits that well into a 4 player HoF game.

Frankly, If I created a 4pl party I'd make a party of

- 2 clercs of good alignment like Lathander (disabling and summoning)
- 1sor of good alignment (diplomat,buffs,heavy artillery,lots of spell ammo)
- 1wiz of good alignment (can be specialist,buffs,heavy artillery, also give him alchemy, id item, find/remove trap and a Knock spell of course).

Fighters in HoF are not THAT useful, as you can always summon 5 undead to do the dirty work and you ABSOLUTELY need artillery and disabling, LOTS of it actually. Only a handful of enemys can resist this tactic(Slayer knights of Xvim are the only ones I believe,also,undead creatures are immune to wail but clerics have other ways to deal with that).

This party would be slightly weak from the beginning until you get undead summoning(level 5) but in HoF it would work pretty well with a summoning lots tactic.

Anyways I can give more info than that if needed or in doubt of something.

-- Leo

[ December 05, 2004, 17:20: Message edited by: Master Leo ]

 

@ Leo

[snip] Take a look at the "Full Reply Form" for easy quoting of previous posts.
Take care.

Dias.
Holy Word is not the only spell in the game. Having a purely Good alignment based on this sole reason is very boring. Banishment is a spell used against you in later chapters. Also, remember spell resistance?
Not having an Arcane caster capable of casting L9 spells is gonna come back to bite you. 'Wail of Banshee', 'Gate' and 'Executioner's Eyes' are absolutely necessary.
Why do you want three people casting L9 devine spells? Specially since Clerics have absolutely crappy spells at L9.
Banites are no better than Stormlords. The Talosian's domain spells are actually better. Its just that the Banites get a quest to increase their prime attribute.

And finally your drow rogue(1)monk(20)sorcerer(9) with 16-18-1-9-18-18.
Forget the Sorc levels. Better to replace the pure Druid with a pure Sorc than weakening the Monk.
Replace drow with deep gnome.
Why the 9Int? It wont make any difference whether your Int is 1 or 9.
Since your sorc levels, which you should get rid of, aren't high you can get away with lower Char. Max Str, Dex, Wis and then Con.

[Attempt at moderating removed.] -Tal

[ December 05, 2004, 20:57: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

Boring maybe - effective certainly.

That's why I recommend 2 clerics and a good aligned party-they stun every one with no save and noone can cast spells in the first place. At the same time 1 spelltosser casts malison, the other with higher dc a wail. Repeat until most ppl dead, then have summons and damage spells kill the rest.

Spell resistance is one of the most useless things in the game(for you and enemie alike). I am 99,9% that most spells incl the abovementioned ignore it totally. The only creatures that seem to resist spells lots are a Dragon in Chult and Slayer knights of Xvim, but for that try a Mordenkainen sword and summons. Vs Dragon use lower resistance.

Wail is necessary, Gate maybe useful(I prefer undead), Executioner's Eyes is not useful when you have a spellcaster team, and enemies in HoF have like 400HP each and even a fighter has trouble killing them directly.

So that would be my quoting lesson then.

Also I apologize to forum admin for using signatures didn't know that was forbidden anyway(when ur logged in >25 forums u don't read the rules anymore just login and start typing).

 

I didn't realize that HoF would be that tough

Quote:
Forget meteor shower etc it simply doesn't do enough damage even to kill a HoF Goblin in Targos

Anyway I know that this isn't the best party for HoF or even in normal play for that matter, I've finished the game once with a heavy arcane 6 man party, via Ken egervari's ultimate powergaming party guide, and I just wanted to try something different and challenging.

With regards to my rogue(1)monk(20)sorcerer(1)
I just added the sorc levels to have some spells and I just thought that a monk with mirror image or blur would be kinda cool.

Quote:
And finally your drow rogue(1)monk(20)sorcerer(9) with 16-18-1-9-18-18.
Forget the Sorc levels. Better to replace the pure Druid with a pure Sorc than weakening the Monk.
Replace drow with deep gnome.
Why the 9Int? It wont make any difference whether your Int is 1 or 9.
Since your sorc levels, which you should get rid of, aren't high you can get away with lower Char. Max Str, Dex, Wis and then Con.

I already minimized the charisma to 14, since he'll be getting only level 4 spells, is deep gnome really better? and I increased the intelligence to 9 because it gave him extra skill points, I just wanted to give him points where it mattered, even a little.

I appreciate all your replies, thanks guys, I hope for more replies, soon.

 

Drow dont get any bonus to sorcerer spells. A 14 Char Drow is as good as a Deep Gnome.
The difference is the DGs +4 racial AC. Also the DG gets Blur, Invisibility and Mirror Image as racial abilities.
IIRC the Drow get saving throw bonus to enchantment spells. And can weild Long Swords as a racial bonus.
A 1 Int char gets the same skill points as a 11 Int char. You get additional skill points at 12 Int and at every 2 points thereafter.

About sorcerers, a high Char does not mean you get to learn more spells. Also if all you are going to cast are buffs, you dont need the higher DC of 18 Char.

 

1 & 4 are going to get xp penalties unless you squat them. Remember, to avoid xp penalties, your classes need to be w/in one of each other except for the races favorite class.

I made an interesting Druid build one time. He was a human Monk 3/Barbarian 2/Druid 25 w/ maxed STR, DEX & WIS. Your AC bonus from DEX & WIS get applied when you shapechange. Also, have him equipped with 2-handed Great Sword for optimum melee damage. He'll require a little squatting, but not too much. You'll have to take all of the Monk levels at once.

 

I already made my rogue(1)monk(20)sorcerer(9) a deep gnome, only problem I see is that he hasn't leveled up yet, although the others has. But, I'm still in Targos anyway so I guess I have to wait a little, with regards to exp penalties, I was hoping that ECL would balance things out and playing with four characters would hasten things up.

Again thanks for the replies!!!

 

Are you using the ease-of-use mod? One of its components increases the DGs starting XP to 1000 away from levelup (ie 9000XP) like it is for every other race.

@Vassago
Monk and barbarian? Using the no-alignment restrictions? Thats evil man.

 

Doh! You're right Shrikant, it was a Monk 2/Fighter 3/Druid 25. I've been too focused on my solo Monk misson to remember my other attempted parties. Although a Barbaric Monk does sound interesting

 

I'm at shaengarne bridge right now, my party is still alive, but my monk is kida falling behind on levels, and the lack of bombardment spells is starting to hurt (I use sunscorch). ultimately I finish off my enemies with melee, which is challenging or pathetic. Anyway I'm still hopeful that my party will pull through, I'll keep you guys posted.

Update:

Hi, I'm about to enter the second level of the horde fortress and so far I think my party is doing ok, except for the fact that I can only kill my enemies mostly in melee and even with tough tanks like my fighter/barbarian build I find that my party could still improve in terms of time spent on killing. What's more I'm beginning to get frustrated with my rogue(1)monk(20)sorcerer(9) build, that's because he has very low hit points, I could've max constitution but I couldn't sacrifice strength(doh), now I'm planning to redo my monk and edit out the rogue part(he doesn't have decnt skills either)plus I want to add two more members to my party, possibly a drow, which would be a full time sorcerer, and a rogue/wizard/another class? to disarm traps(finally).

Now here are my questions:

1. Is it ok if I add the three new characters now? Because I'm thinking that I might have a tough time if I add them later on, you know with enemies a lot stronger. On the other hand I might get more xp when I add them later because of challenge ratings right? By the way my four man party is at an average of character level 5, I think, and I'm still in the Horde fortress(you know rescuing Enelia, and Braston, although I already killed the girl, hehe).

2. What class could be added to a rogue(1)wizard(17), because this build is so cliche and it bores me, I just want to reach level 9 spells and to hell with it, I was thinking of adding fighter? and specialize with small blades, or some other class, I thought that weapon finesse feat would rule but I learned that it only applied to attack rolls.

3. Any other sugggestions to add to my full time sorcerer, I want to add another class but I don't want a paladin because I'm playing an evil party, and a bard/sorcerer build is too gay for me.

Well I guess that's it for now, if you guys won't see this update by any chance I would like to post it as a new topic, I hope that's ok.

Thanks a million!!!

[ December 10, 2004, 18:09: Message edited by: Dias ]

 

@Dias,
1) As long as your party's average level is 6 or below, you won't notice a difference in xp. It's the same up to level 6, once you hit 7, then it starts to drop. Adding additional characters later will definitely help as it will drop your APL to a much desired lower number. My solo Monk was level 9 all through chapter 2 (Ice Palace) and I didn't get any xp from the Aurelites. I was, however, able to beat most of chapter 2 without any issues (except for that darn Ranger).

2) Suggested build for your Drow Rogue/Wiz:
Male Wizard 17/Rogue 3/Fighter 4/Ranger 3/Barbarian 3
This will keep your from getting xp penalties, gives you backstab, dual wielding, weapon specialization, rage and increased speed.

3) What race is your full-time Sorcerer?

 

"2) Suggested build for your Drow Rogue/Wiz:
Male Wizard 17/Rogue 3/Fighter 4/Ranger 3/Barbarian 3
This will keep your from getting xp penalties, gives you backstab, dual wielding, weapon specialization, rage and increased speed."


@Neocool00: why does this build seems so familar to me?!


...but as discussed already on an other forum - would skip the ranger levels and take three more wizard levels instead...

...you only loose one feat as your wizard gets a bonus feat, and you get more high-level spells!

 

@SD,
because I like it Also, he indicated that he only wanted 17 levels of Wiz. Adding three Ranger levels gives you dual weilding for free and if you want to expand on Rogue skills, most of them only cost you one skill point while advancing as a Ranger.

and by the way SD, I'm Vassago from the other forum you mentioned.

 

Thanks for the replies, anyway I've decided to install weimer's mod because I was getting pretty bored, and I must say it sure ROCKS!!! Although I'm still trying out the randomized treasure drops, I'm not sure if I like it, I mean most of the time you get these potions and scrolls, and I'm looking for good weapons and armor.

Anyway I just got back from the fortress and here's my new party

1. Half-orc Barbarian(15)fighter(4)battleguard(11)
2.Aasimar Fighter(4)Paladin(8)Sorcerer(15) - chaotic neutral,thank you ease of mod
3. Aasimar Druid(30)
4.Deep Gnome Monk(20)Morninglord(10)
5.Aasimar Sorcerer(30)
6. Drow Figther(4)Rogue(8)Ranger(1)Wizard(17)

I do like my party now, I retained the Half-orc and my druid from the original four, so basically they fight for the others until they get to a decent level. Druid shapeshifts in the mod rule!!!

Anyway I have questions about the mod, I would post a new topic but I'm a lazy bastard so....

1. The hoop thing I bought from Ulbrec's wife which generates kegs that give cool items when you smash it, can you really produce a keg once per day, because when I bought it it had 25 charges, I remember I rested my party and when they woke up it only had one left, but when I use it and slept again there was another charge, so what's the real deal?

2. Can the grand daddy mimic kegs be killed? If so will they give cool items too?

3. Some of the items that are listed in the readme file of the mod, listed items in the "forgotten armor and shields" fix which were'nt there. Like some of Oswald's new stash, and I didn't get any item form Deidre and Guthewulfe in Targos.

4. The Mail of life I got from Shawford at the Palisade didn't give correct damage resistance, it has an armor bonus of 8, and a dex bonus of 2, but it gave only 2 damage resistance.

5. The items I got from the Super Kegs, will they ever differ in variety? I mean I keep loading and all they seem to give are the protean hammer, clubs of distruption, ice spear +4, Iron whacamacallit response, I mean I think I memorized them.

Whooh!!! I think this will do for now, anyway thanks for your replies, I hope you guys keep helping me.