Newbie Question - Dual Classed Ranger/Cleric

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Hi all, I'm new here but I've done lots of searches and feel like I know everyone. So, here's my first stupid question:

The conventional wisdom when dual-classing from a warrior class is to do it at level 9 to maximize HP, THAC0 and proficiency points. But in the case of a ranger/cleric, I don't really see any advantage to a lvl 9 dual vs a lvl 7 (ie immediate) dual. You end up with about the same HP's, you ultimately go with the cleric's THAC0 progression table, and you end up with the same number of prof points. A lvl 7 dual maxes out at cleric lvl 20 (vs lvl 19 at lvl 9 dual) so you get to memorize a few more spells, and the lvl 7 dual does't have to wait nearly as long to regain ranger abilities. And yet, when searching the Boards, everyone seems to advocate dualing at level 9. What am I missing? Or am I completely out to lunch in my analysis?

Thanks for your help.

 

I beg to differ... the ranger gains a new proficiency slot at level 9 - earlier, and in a ranger weapon.

 

True enough, but the level 7 dual-class character ultimately gets that prof point back when he/she reaches cleric level 20 (1 point for every 4 cleric levels), whereas the level 9 dual is max'd out at cleric level 19 (and therefore doesn't get the level 20 point). (I'm assuming the XP cap is left at 2,950,000.) In both cases, you end up with 15 points (including the 2 free points in 2 weapon style).

As far as being able to put the level 9 point in a ranger weapon, I assume you mean that you don't have the cleric's weapon restrictions. However, that really doen't help since a cleric multi- or dual-classed with anything is restricted to cleric weapons anyway.

 

Granted, it's quite a wait. However, even at the level 7 dual, you have 12 proficiency points available (including the 2 "freebies" in 2 weapon style) by the time you regain your ranger abilities (and after only 110,000 XP, vs 661,000 XP in the case of the level 9 dual); IMHO that is enough. You can be specialized in Flails/Morningstars (Flail of the Ages, anyone? -- available very early ), plus 4 other blunts. After all, how many blunt weapon categories do you really need to be specialized in, particularily early in the game?

[ June 08, 2003, 18:46: Message edited by: Splunge ]

 

You asked for a pitty post in my thread, so I'll throw you a bone my friend.

Honestly, I think you'd be fine either way. The differences you're talking about here are peanuts really, and won't make or break your game by any stretch IMO. One thing I would do however is to do your proficiencies this way:

Ranger: 2 Weapon Style * (to get 3 stars), hammers **, clubs**, staffs * or whatever. Once you dual to cleric, IIRC you should only get 3 weapon proficiencies for the 8 levels you'll go before your ranger levels reactivate. I would do flail & sling to start, and add mace at level 5, or whatever. Just remember not to take those proficiencies in weapons you already have in your Ranger class because they won't stack (i.e. if you have 1 * in maces to start, and as a cleric you give yourself 1 * in maces, you won't end up with ** - hence, one is WASTED). Once your Ranger activates again, then add your next stars to mace, sling, or flail, as now you'll be able to get ** in them.

Make sense or did I babble?

 

Nope, you made perfect sense. (I actually was pretty much aware of the points you raised - I may be a newbie, but I’m not that new. (Hope I’m not coming across as a know-it-all here; I’m more of a know-a-little-bit. ))

My original point was that, given a 661,000 XP wait to regain your ranger abilities when dualling at level 9, vs only 110,000 if dualling at level 7, there didn’t seem to me to be any real benefit to the level 9 dual, and you have pretty much confirmed that for me. Thanks for your input.

 

I prefer to multiclass the Cleric/Ranger because I play through to ToB. If you are not using ToB, then dual classing will give you a more powerful character if that is what you're looking for. I think there isn't a great deal of difference between dual classing over at 7th or 9th, but between the two, I would choose 9th due to getting the additional hitpoints and a somewhat better THACO and saving throws. Honestly, it would probably be a preferable situation to go to 12th or even 13th for the significantly higher THACO, saving throws and additional attacks. Personal choice.

 

Don’t want to come across as sounding obsessive here, but this was my first post, so I’m feeling a little bit attached to it. Plus I could still be wrong.
Subra, whether dual- or multi-classed, your THAC0 and saving throws I believe are based on the better of the 2 classes depending on their levels. So for example, a level 9 ranger has a THAC0 of 12, which is the same a level 10 cleric; however, in the case of DC, the ranger THAC0 stops improving once dualled, whereas the cleric’s THAC0 continues to improve. Ultimately, you are going with the Cleric’s THAC0 whether you dual at lvl 7 or 9. The same applies to saving throws.
As far as HP’s go, the lvl 9 dual by my calculations gets a whole 4 HP average advantage over the lvl 7 dual by the end of SoA (assuming core rules and 18 CON). IMO this is offset by the fact that, under the lvl 7 dual, you reach lvl 20 cleric vs lvl 19 with the lvl 9 dual; this is important since the lvl 20 cleric gets an extra skin with Iron Skins.
I don’t think it makes sense to dual at lvl 12; might as well just multi. If you dual at lvl 13, you won’t get your ranger abilities back since you can’t get lvl 14 cleric with the XP cap. But I agree, multi is best for ToB.

I think it’s time I just let it go now.

Edit: Hey, I got a new gem!

Edit: I see Tal moved this to the ToB Forum from SoA (due to the ToB references, of course), but this question really was in the context of SoA.
(I'm trying to let go, I really am!)

[ June 11, 2003, 01:19: Message edited by: Splunge ]

 

Actually. Tal, I don't have ToB installed. I did, but I realized that I still wanted to play just SoA for a while longer, so I uninstalled both and reinstalled just SoA. My comments on ToB are based partly on my very limited ToB experience, but mainly come from reading other SP member's comments. (Don't ask why I'm reading ToB threads when I'm only playing SoA; I gues I'm just a knowledge junkie. )
Sorry to have mislead you.

 

Well, this has sure gotten . Maybe BTA is gonna give both of us heck.
But, I concede your correctness on both points.
Please can I let this topic go now??

 

The whole point of the cleric/ranger multi or dual either way is to access both druidic and clerical spells. The ranger part of the class is secondary so the level you dual isn't that significant. You could dual over at lvl 2 and it wouldn't make much difference in the final analysis. Ranger is weak, but having both spell lines is very handy.

Some might say if you want druid spells and combat abilities, dump the cleric/ranger and make a fighter/druid and I would say that is a fine choice for a protagonist also, but you have one of those combos in the game already, Jaheira.

For my part, I like the Cleric/Ranger because it frees me to dump the romance characters and take a harder hitting group of melee NPC's that I might not otherwise be able to fit into the group. For instance, taking Korgan, Mazzy, Minsc and Keldorn along with Imoen is a very strong party when the protagonis is covering the cleric duties. You can use almost all of the extremely powerful weapons in the game and it isn't that difficult to manage reputation to keep them all in the party.

Regarding the references to ToB, are we supposed to pretend that it doesn't exist just because we post in some other forum? I think you will find no spoilers in any of my posts on the matter, so I've got nothing to apologize for.