No Dual Wielding

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This is my latest party attempt - no one is dual wielding. That in itself isn't overly strange, but what makes it unique is that it's a melee heavy party with no dual wielders.

Here's the basic premise - my standard party formation is going to be the "T" shape, with three front line people and the three in a row behind them. The object is to get all three front liners with low ACs using shields. Then of the back three, two are wielding two handed weapons, and should be able to "reach" into the melee combat. AC won't be as important for them as they should not absorb many hits.

Here's the party - and it's a strange one:

Frontline:
Anomen, who will wield either maces or war hammers, as needed.
Korgan, but with one axe only.
Mazzy, but no way I'm putting up with short swords all game. First order of business was to train her on flails, and she'll be equipped with the FoA.

Backline:
Jan, the only mage, but he's good enough. He has his crossbow right now, but he'll eventually graduate to a conventional bow.
Keldorn, he gets Carsomyr.
PC is an Undead Hunter. Odd, simply because it's a second paladin, and you only get one Holy Avenger. So, my thinking is to use two-handed weapons not named Carsomyr. I am currently using the Staff of Rynn. My first six proficiencies were spent (2 each) on two handed weapon style, halberds, and quarterstaffs. My next two will go to spears, and after that I'm not sure.

 

Sounds like a good strategy. At least a 'startegy'. You will not have as many attacks per round, but eventually, with GWW it will be no problem.

 

True, I'm in fact getting a lot fewer attacks per round. Hopefully this will balance somewhat in that with better AC, I won't be getting hit as much either. Dealing out damage quickly is of greater benefit to those who can't go toe to toe with enemies over a long period of time.

So far, things are going OK. I've done the Slavers, the Umar Hills (I had to get Mazzy, so may as well do it then) and the Planar Sphere. Next up is either the D'Arnise Keep or Trademeet.

 

First time I finished the game I didn`t have anyone dualwielding either. Worked like a charm. Used alot of shields, didn`t get hit as often. I think my party was:

1.PC fighter, used a two handed sword.
2. Minsc , also used a two handed sword.
3. Anomen, flail og ages + shield
4. Jaheira, some scimitar probably + shield. (she had -13 AC I think. without spells.
5. Imoen, with gesen bow
6. Edwin

Was a cool party.I think I tossed out anomen or Edwin and brought in Sarevok in ToB though.

 

Use haste and oils of speed a lot. This will help for number of attacks per round.

 

My thinking is that I've never made full use of the shields, which are really nice once you include the Item Upgrade Mod. Some upgrades that you can make off the top of my head include taking the plain old Buckler +1 from Mae'Var's guild, and improving it to the Holy Buckler of Amunator, which is +2, gives negative plane protection, and casts false dawn twice per day. Other upgrades include upgrading the Shield of Harmony from Trademeet, and Upgrading Anomen's Shield. Altough, in fairness, I'm not sure if it is possible to upgrade BOTH the shield of Harmony and Anomen's as they both may require Saving Grace as a component, but I'm not sure about that.

 

For your Undead Hunter, you might find some fun with Spears or Halberds (the Wave, Dragon's Bane, etc. come to mind). I had some pretty good results with Keldorn and a PC-Cavalier, one wielding Carsomyr, the other handling the halberds. Or, you could switch one of your Paladins into a frontline position and deal in longswords (for their potent bonuses, and eventually The Purifier). Honestly, though, I always felt Undead Hunters were mace/flail types fit for the Mace of Disruption and its ilk... *grin*

>.> And it's so weird seeing a party with two Paladins and NEITHER of them on the frontline... heh. Go Aldeth, the Foppish Innovator!

 

Well, I always felt that I under-utilized halberds. There are a few obvious reasons for this, namely that there aren't that many easily acquired halberds available early on, and there are exactly zero NPCs available in SoA that come with proficiencies in them. So really, the only way you would use them is if you made a PC with that specific intent in mind. Since I normally multi-class, halberds are virtually always off limits.

The other reason that my paladins aren't in the frontline (other than the obvious fact that their ACs aren't as good as the shield bearers) is that I'm making use of the extended reach of 2-handed weapons. A Character with a halberd or a two handed sword can swing and hit a monster, even if he is standing behind another character already engaged in melee. You can't do that, if for example, you're using a mace.

I also agree with the assessment of giving the MoD to my PC, but I scrapped that idea primarily because one the main properties of the MoD that make it so useful is that it gives you immunity to level drain, and obviously an Undead Hunter has that anyway. Anomen has the Sensate Amulet, so he really doesn't need it either. It's typically wielded by either Mazzy or Korgan, and only when fighting level draining undead, because the negative plane protection makes it worth using even if you don't have any proficiency in it.

EDIT: Also, I found out that it is definitely possible to upgrade both Anomen's Shield and the Shield of Harmony. Saving Grace is required for Anomen's Shield, and two brine potions and a mind flayer control circlet is required for the Shield of harmony. So the only bad part about that is the SoH won't be upgraded util I retrun from the Underdark.

 

You are right, an Undead Hunter does not need the MoD. Though it fits the theme perfectly eh?

Do reach-weapons really work? They worked wonders in IWD, as my mage bashed monsters with his long staff from behind heavily armored fighters. Does it also work in BG2? Never tried though.

Keeping your PC in the back is nice as he will not die frequently this way. I always put him to the top, to the most front. It may get painful sometimes.

 

Reach weapons always worked for me. It seems that anything that is two handed has a longer range. That makes sense in terms of halberds and spears, but I don't think that a two handed sword could be effectively wielded from the second row, and a quarterstaff certainly couldn't be. Of course that's because your characters hold quarterstaves as if they were baseball bats, which certainly is NOT the way they were wielded as weapons historically. Typically, both hands were placed closer to the middle of the quarterstaff, which allowed the staff to be used both offensively, and defensively in parrying techniques.

Also, yeah, I usually have my PC in the front line, but only if I am playing a class where he has some decent armor. So basically, the only way I wouldn't put the PC there is if I'm playing something like a sorcerer, kensai, M/T or the like.

 

This reminds me. The way the character avatars use the staves is ridiculolus. They grasp the same place with both hands and swing, lika a baseball bat you said. This would require dangerous proximity then. WAS it somehow different in IWD?

 

Do not neglect spears. Impaler is awesome (one of the best two-handed weapons in SoA). The Spear of Withering is quite good, too. Ixil's Spear is also very good in ToB. In fact, I think the three best weapons are two-handed.

Having the US with two-handed sword will enable you to use both Carsomyr and the Silver Blade (or Warblade) at the same time.

I, for one, shift Jaheira to spears instead of having her use scimitars.

 

Its interesting. My most successful parties are with a PC Kensai - and he is always in slot #1. Yet I see all sorts of players warning against this. I often wonder whether the whole combat mechanic is bugged in some way. Jaheira often has an AC 6 or 8 points lower than others in my party, and it never seems as if she gets hit appreciably less.

 

Something I've noticed about two handed (reach) weapons...while staves, halberds and 2H swords work in this manner, spears require you get as close as with a one handed weapon. This doesn't happen in IWD games, but does in BG2.

The "no dual wielding" strategy is something I've done quite a few times perfectly succesfully. Dual wielding is a bit overrated, I think.

 

Typically, quarterstaves were brought to bear in combat being held nearly vertically, or perpendicular to the ground, with both hands near the center of the staff. This is an effective system, as it allows you to block an incoming strike simply by turning the staff, and provides a viable defense for both high and low attacks. Even better, when in the motion of blocking, you just follow through with the action, and it becomes an attack. The opposite end of the staff that was used to block strikes the opponent.

Like you said though, used in this manner, it would require a close proximity to your enemy. When used in this manner, a quarterstaff had a reach of no greater than the average sized sword. And it NEVER was gripped with both hands at one end and used like a baseball bat, because this manner provides no defense. The battlefield life of someone using this tactic would almost certainly be short.

Halberds and spears are completely different. It was customary when an enemy breached a castle's walls for there to be two lines of defenders to repell the enemy attempting to flood into the castle. The front row consisted mostly of soldiers bearing shields, and possessing swords (or hammers in later medieval times). Regardless of the weapon of choice for the front row, the back row possessed either halberds or spears. They would stand immediately behind the swordsmen and hold the weapon over their heads parallel to the ground. They would then strike downward, above the heads or between the shoulders of the swordsmen to attack the invaders.

All this is a long-winded way of saying that the concept of "weapon reach" is definitely real, and was employed in times of war throughout history. However, I've never heard of any of these tactics being used with two handed swords or quarterstaves. The tactics I listed above were used with things like halberds, spears, polearms, poleaxes, etc.

 

Spears were also used between the gaps in the shields at times because they are long piercing weapons and made them easy to wield through small gaps in the shields without really diminishing the defensiveness. They were also quickly and easily brought into formation to set against a charge thanks to this ability. Though if you ask me the guy that figured that one out was totally nuts.


Halberds actually require being swung and were only used as a piercing weapon in desperation acts since Halberds in essence are Axe heads on the greatly extended handles.

But yeah. Aldeth is pretty on the money.

 

It is also diiferent between BG2 and IWD, how the avatars carry staves when they are not fighting. Old IWD avatars carry the staff like a walking stick. BG2 ones just hold it like a baseball bat one-handed.

 

Actually, a halberd has a spear point on the top, meaning it could be swung like an axe, or thrust like a spear. The weapon you are referring to (just an axehead) is called a poleaxe, and yes, they were useless as piercing weapons.

 

You're going to want to get protection from normal missiles and possibly start using globes of invulnerability. Not all mobs will play nice and only dance with the front liners.

For the record, halberds are a no-brainer alternate paladin weapon prior to Carsomyr (start a new character with ** 2H sword, ** halberd, ** 2H weapon style), at least in SOA.

When you're not using Sword of Chaos +2 or Lilarcor (the jokes get old and mind shield isn't always needed), you should be using the Harmonium Halberd, which gives STR+1. Give an 18 STR paladin the Girdle of Giant Strength and you're trucking around with a fully-specced pally with 20 STR and a +3 weapon. The halberd is one of the least expensive bonus items, too (if not the least).

Wave halberd is also good for laughs later on, though by then, most paladins will be using Carsomyr full-time. Your CHARNAME might make some good use of it in SOA, and you can then graduate to Ravager in TOB.

 

I couldn't care less if my 100+ hp paladin gets hit by a sissy 1d6 arrow. Or a bolt. Or a sling stone. It's not like my character is without any defense - she's wearing full plate mail after all! So PfNM isn't a necessary thing. Maybe for Jan, but my paladin. Same thing goes for globes of invulnerability. Useful for Jan, but I don't even think I can cast one on my paladin.

I agree that by end game, I'm probably going to be using the Ravager. Right now my main weapon is the Dragonslayer Halberd. It's only base +3 as opposed to the staff of Rynn being +4, but 1d10+3 is one more point of average base damage over 1d6+4. I still carry the Staff of Rynn for golems though. The weapon I think I will use the most however, is the halberd you get in the Underdark called (I belive) Dragon's Breath. It's 1d10+4, and it gives one additional point of damage in every elemental, making it by far the best option throughout most of the game.