Non-HOF early game strategies and tactics <level 10

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I see lots of talk about getting an AC so high that you are virtually uninhabitable except on a natural 20 to use a decoy character, and the praise of various 5th level and above spells.

However, I usually consider the Shangarn Bridge battle to be one of the make or break points for a given party. If not, the Ice Fortress at the latest.

What I'm interested in are the power gaming and other tactics used by characters under level 10 to cakewalk through the game through the ice temple.
Preferably without having to rest after every little skirmish with a couple of mooks because your spellcasters exhausted their spellbook casting buffs.

How do you make the decoys and tanks able to do their jobs before you get those nifty bracers? My warrior types tend to take a beating even when I actually do buff the heck out of them in the Shangarn and Horde fortress and give them all 18's for stats using Dalekeeper.
What armors and other equipment do you equip them with?

I try to only rest once per map, and just accept that I'll need to use healing spells and potions on the warriors.

Now that the game is old to me, especially the beginning, I'm interested in other people's playing styles, but most of the talk on these boards focuses on end-game builds for HoF mode rather than the first half of the game. While I'd like the builds to eventually be viable for HoF mode, I also want to have fun in the first half getting there.
How do you play up until and including the Ice Temple?
What tactics, spells, and equipment?
What do you put on your warriors? When do you do those mix-ins everyone is so enthusiastic about?

I'd like to hear more about lower-level play, as I don't often have the patience to play with a frustrating build that I know will pay off at the end of the game, but is harder than normal when less than level ten.

Yes, I realize you usually get to level ten around the same time as the Ice Temple, and often to level eleven or twelve by the end.

 

What difficulty are you playing? 1,2,3,4,5
Do you minmax stats (ie 1 in charisma 1 intelligence half orc)?
Do you take max HP?

Lets start by saying I am not a brilliant strategist but I am decent.


I'll just make a list (and not explain too much) stategies up to the ice temple


Goblin attack:

All 6 party members who do not have rapid shot need crossbows since they hit hard and in the beginning people don't have multiple attacks. When the enemy charges switch melee to the tanks and then they are just blocking things. Focus fire. Bless is good. Sleep spell is good but not a good sorcerer pick. Entangle is good.

Same strategy for Caballus. Focus fire on him and block oncoming attackers. When Caballus casts protection from missiles then you should have the tanks charge him and focus magic missiles or other 1 target spells.

Orcs:

The first encounter with orcs you use ranged fire to take down shamans. Buff tanks with protection from evil. Buy and find flaming oil or whatever it is called to help kill shamans and packs of orcs.

Troll:

Kill the two guards and then cast grease on the floor. focus fire on the troll and direct damage spells. You can use disabler spells like charm or hold person or sleep on the orcs, but the troll is important. Faerie Fire or Alicorn lance is good for druids. Intercept the troll with characters with good AC, Hps and buff them with prot evil.

Mountain Pass:

This is the first time for lycanthropes and it applies to the bridge battles as well. You can't hit them without a magic weapon. I make sure my tanks have a magic weapon. Here's the ones I use: +1 whisper stick from Caballus I think, a 600 gp stick with 1 or 2 cold resistance from the Targos merchant. +1 ghost touch dagger from the ghost in Targos. Battle Axe +1 from the Orc leader, moon blade by taking no reward on a good party. After the mountain pass is the Thy-Dhunag blade which you will have on the bridge.

Ranged characters can focus on shaman, spiders, orc archers and harpies.
I also buy 40 +1 darts which aren't too expensive for some reason.

Horde Fortress grounds...

This is actually hard because of some of the enemy tanks, the druid who casts call lighting named Trugnuk, and the drums (especially)...

By then a cleric can summon some minor undead. Save burning oils for the ice trolls. Use ranged weapons and block the bridge with undead. Don't cast any web or something because it harms your own parties mobility.

Get chromatic orb for arcane casters and stun the summoned wolves. High Int or Cha is good as well as SF 1 and 2 of evocation. Undead should have the way choked off across the bridge with your own tanks helping out or shooting missile weapons and burning oils. So you don't tip your hand to fast and rush the drum and get your party all separated.

When Trugnak comes he will cast entangle and call lightning. And he has an ice troll and maybe some other tanks defending him. So he is guarding the drum.

I'll be honest I am not sure a good tactic to beat him. Sometimes I have to reload. You can keep anyone going near him at high health and take evasioin characters. Wait for his entangle expires and just fight drum summons (hey it's also xp) with your whole party. Then agro his tanks and let them cross the bridge to your party who is waiting with flaming oils etc.

Fortress:

I used a lot of undead getting the agro from piercing weapons/archers... Then I killed mage with a stealthed monk/rogue and ranged attackers/casters. Still missile is the way to go even for tanks unless they have to be blocker tanks and block the way for the ranged. Crossbow is the best unless they have rapid shot.

Headquarters

In the actual fortress I used undead to block the way and I cast: grease, spike stones, stinking cloud and web. Then ranged attacks (crossbows). I highly recommend stinking cloud as a wizard and possibly sorcerer pick because casters don't save and your own undead are immune. Also tanks with high fort saves won't as easily get disabled via friendly fire.


So just so you know... I play: min/max but not optimized ie some is just for fantasy.. I play medium difficulty... I play max HP per level


I can't wait to hear others strategy

 

For me combat-wise it all boils down to two things : foreknowledge (which means I always use someone with stealth/invisibility to scout areas first and observe enemy movement) and choke points.
Basically I force monsters to fight in cramped quarters/corners where fog of war or some other obstacle blocks their view of my party and then nuke/focus fire them down one by one. From my experience there is always somewhere you can do this, except for maps that start with your guys in combat.
I prefer to kite dangerous monsters since I rarely bring fighter classes. I rarely engage monsters on their own turf/rules.

At low levels having a party with the right kind of race/attributes/skillset that allows me to maximize XP gain from dialogue/quests is ideal. AFAIK the only extra experience option I'm forced to skip is the one the one that requires a fighter-type to teach some new guys how to use a spear. My brand of powergaming is not based on "highest" or "best", but "most convenient". Obviously having more levels before the Battle of Targos is extremely convenient, so I usually start the game with only four people, each with a unique skillset that allows everyone without an ECL penalty to reach at least level 3 before the big fight. I add more people as I proceed. I don't level squat.
At low levels the best caster is easily the druid. Sunscorch and Faerie Fire/Alicorn Lance do wonders against powerful enemies, like Ogres, the doppelganger, trolls, Phaen, and mini-bosses like Caballus, and especially when feated. A failed save against Sunscorch can neutralize just about anything early on. For everything else there's Sleep. Druids also get Entangle, which helps tremendously in the Shaengarne area where you have to fight those orcs and priests of Malar. They get Rainstorm, a second level nuke that works extremely well outdoors and in the Battle of Targos, shapeshift forms, Beast Claw (turns them into a fighter-equivalent with same/more damage and 2 attacks per round) and Thorn Spray. Thorn Spray is extremely powerful when you first get it and will remain that way until after you beat the Ice Fortress. I usually get it by the third or so Shaengarne map, it shreds everything.

So yeah, for the most part my early game tactics revolve around the Druid class (for the rare druid-less party I compensate by memorizing an excessive amount of Sleep spells), the Sleep spell (from bards/wizards/sorcerers), ranged combat (especially versus the goblins and orcs in the first part of the game), utilizing chokepoints/corners and only fighting my battles in locations where I have the upper hand. To guarantee that, I use spells like Entangle, Spike Growth, Grease, Web, etc. I usually prefer ranged combat until after my melee warriors get their first few defensive spells (armor, mirror image, etc). Since most of my guys are medium BAB casters, I usually have no trouble keeping large groups of enemies asleep/slowed/entangled/etc early on... that's one factor to consider, I guess. With my spells I usually have no trouble picking off those orcs in the first Shaengarne map (the one with all the barrels), focusing on the ones that made their saves first. Everyone also has some escape spell (racial or class-specific).
IMO the most dangerous early game enemies are those orc fire archers and some of the oozes in the troll cave. The powerful ones before that usually don't do enough damage to kill most characters in one/two hits, the ones after have your superior levels/spells to contend with. Everything else is either slow/can be distracted/can be killed conveniently with some planning. Worse case scenarios do happen occasionally, given the sheer amount of monsters you have to fight.

I try to save potions/items for major battles so usually when I get to the big Shaengarne fight I'll have lots of extra burning oils to throw at monsters my guys can't bring down fast enough. If I find out that my current party's damage output is extremely poor I will use one of those fireball potions from Oswald in one of the major early game fights. I forgot if you can haggle/get one from him as a reward as well as buy one off him.
My party rests around two to three times per large map (like the first Shaengarne map) at lower levels, once or so in maps with ideal chokepoints/corners (like the map with the townspeople and the priestess of Selune), more if enemy monsters are making their saves more often than usual.

Gear-wise almost everyone is using axes/greataxes/throwing axes/throwing greataxes and bows/crossbows. The cleric uses Spiritual Weapon (the hammer is ranged) early on when I need him/her to go ranged, I usually can't afford to have him/her swap out his/her shield. Same for the druid. The stealthy character uses a high damage backstab weapon and a ranged weapon otherwise. This character is usually a drow rogue 1/diviner x in my parties, and is essential for scouting, initiating battles, luring enemy groups into chokepoints, and assassination (minibosses, drums, etc).

 

I don't want to derail this thread, but I'll point out that I too used to find Trugnak to be one of the more challenging fights. I started a thread about it five years ago, and you might want to review it for ways to handle him.
http://www.sorcerers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49891

If anyone wants to add something on Trugnak, you can always necro that thread.

 

Most of my early game strategies revolve around long term buffs: Mage Armor, Cat's Grace and Bull's Strength are staples to rely on, and last for hours. Flaming oils provide much needed surefire enemy spellcaster interruption and AoE damage, turning fights like Phaen and Caballus from reload-prone into relative easymode.

 

When planning on only playing through the Vanilla game on normal mode, no HOF, buffs are a must early game. I like to use a Shield Dwarf Fighter(4)/Wizard(X) build. Obviously, buffs are a must. Shield, Mirror Image, Blur, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace and a Greataxe really make him a butt-kicker. I level evenly until level 9 which goes all Wizard from there on. Barbarian mix-ins allowing for Rage also are a nice added bonus to some builds, depending on the character build.

 

Things I buy before the bridge...

First off I have a character with high charisma to make better prices...


Sling plus one for like 350 gold
Chainmail armor for those who will wear it
Perhaps some flaming oil
Memories of Kuldhahar club +1 with resistance to cold. About 650 gp.
10-40 darts +1

If you have sorcerer instead of mage you sell a lot of scrolls and do not buy any.

 

I find the ideal party(for my playing tastes) to have at a minimum 2 Arcane Casters(1 Sorc/1 Wiz), 2 Divine Casters(1 Cle/1 Drd), 1 Rogue, 3 Tanks(Any Warrior Type/Cleric). Obviously certain PCs will perform Multiple functions.

The below party is built for Vanilla only, is fun, tough and customizable, with lots of buff options and easily fulfills the above criteria. I don't min/max stats...more often than not I will roll stats and Dalekeeper them in as 16 points per character is both tiresome and stupid in my opinion.

Aasimar Pal(1)/Cleric(Ilmater)(X) - 14/10/16/8/18/14
Shield Dwarf Fig(4)/Wiz(X) - 14/14/14/18/8/8
Human Sorcerer - 10/14/14/12/10/18
Half-Orc Druid(X)/Barb(1) - 18/14/12/8/16/6
Human Rogue(1)/Cleric(Mask)(X) - 16/14/12/12/16/8
Human Fig(4)/Bard(X) - 12/14/12/14/8/16

 

a copy-paste from my guide. maybe it's helpful.

 

My party is:

Gold Dwarf, Pal1/FighterX St (high) Dex (high) Con (high) Int (dump) Wis (dump) Ch (high)
skills: intimidate (important for intimidating Baedowyn)
Role: tank, melee damage, intimidator, mage killer, ranged

Human, F2/DruidX St (high) Dex (high) Con (high) Int (dump) Wis (high) Ch (dump)
skills: concentration and spellcraft
Role: tank, bark buffs, damage spells, ranged

Human, Cleric of OghmaX St (high) Dex (high) Con (high) Int (dump) Wis (high) Ch (dump)
skills: concentration and wilderness lore
Role: cleric buffs, healing, tank, ranged, damage spells, disabler domain

Tiefling, MonkX Rogue1 St (med high) Dex (high) Con (med high) Int (high) Wis (10 to avoid malus of wisdom to AC) Ch (dump)
Skills: Stealth, search, disable device, open locks
Role: rogue skills, ranged attacker, mage killer via speed

Drow, BardX St (6) Dex (high) Con (high) Int (high) Wis (dump) Ch (high)
Skills: Alchemy, Concentration, Diplomacy, Bluff, Pick Pocket, Knowledge Arcana, Use Magic Device
Role: Singer, ranged, buffer, enchantment disablers

Human, SorcererX St (6) Dex (high) Con (high) Int (dump) Wis (dump) Ch (high)
Skills: concentration and spellcraft
Role: Buffer, ranged, and bombadier

---------- Added 1 hours, 50 minutes and 17 seconds later... ----------

One thing to realize right away is that it is tricky to separate the party members. For one thing you forget about a character off of the screen who is taking a beating. It sounds nice to open a battle with a sneak attack with the problem that the rogue draws all the agro. Agro is important. I usually agro with tanks and THEN hit the sneak attack. Similarly be careful to charge with the tanks because it will agro more. Slowly chew the new waves of attackers as they come to you. Ranged fire is very powerful at low levels as one may have seen from Baldur's Gate 1

 

There is no Wis Malus to AC for monks, as far as I know.

 

High Wisdom is a benefit to the Monk. Why 10? Wisdom adds the Stat bonus to his AC, along with the Dex bouns. Basically a Monk prequisite is high Wis and Dex.

When you are fighting for the Holy Avenger, you will want your Monk maxed out in AC.

Why have 2 fighter level mxi-in for your Druid Build? It lessens your spell power/progression.

 

I took a 16 point point buy. Other stats were more important considering my monk is a ranged attacker with melee only against low AC mages.

The only dump stat my monk has is charisma. He needs max dex (ranged) and max intelligence (for skills). For the other attribute (<-edit) picks I tend to think constitution should be maxed for every character. Still with one dump stat con isn't maxed here. I might have changed strength for wisdom. I could have a 10 in strength and a 16 in wisdom. But that would screw up AB and damage. If you don't hit them it doesn't matter if you stun them. Max dex will help out the AC and he is a ranged attacker. But anyways this character never melees except against mages. I chose tiefling for +2 dex, int and -2 cha (dump stat). This was the best that could be done.

Wisdom doesn't affect his role. It doesn't help with stealth or ranged combat. For mage killing strength is more important. Strength is more important than wisdom for mage killing because I might as well kill them rather than stun them.

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For druid I took 1 fighter level for heavy armor. Two fighter levels so I can have: scion of storms, improved critical, and spirit of flame (before level 15). Also fighter gives BAB. Honestly, I find Druid 12 to be a cut off point. Druids main purpose is bark skin and that maxes out at level 12. I tend to rest whenever that is available so it is not important to have massive amounts of spells. I agree I should have taken only one fighter level to get those three feats: Scion of storms, Improved Critical, and Spirit of Flame at 15th level. The argument for two figher levels is to have those three feats earlier. So I sacrificed end game power for power right at kuldahar. At 15th level I can take spell focus: transmutation. The druid is kind of starved for feats when you are in the front row and both a caster and melee presence. So I lose one level of spells in return for 2 good casting feats. And higher BAB. BAB is actually important for melee because it affects number of attacks.

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Aasimar Pal(1)/Cleric(Ilmater)(X) - 14/10/16/8/18/14
Shield Dwarf Fig(4)/Wiz(X) - 14/14/14/18/8/8
Human Sorcerer - 10/14/14/12/10/18
Half-Orc Druid(X)/Barb(1) - 18/14/12/8/16/6
Human Rogue(1)/Cleric(Mask)(X) - 16/14/12/12/16/8
Human Fig(4)/Bard(X) - 12/14/12/14/8/16

Aren't some of your builds ^^ missing out on casting power. Your cleric, your druid, your dwarf wizard in particular.

Let's have our parties duel haha... just kidding

 

I agree with your Druid assessment. I hate to build for end-game power only, as the game gets fun after the Ice Palace. Though one level of spell power limits spell capabilities as well every odd level. A whole new Spell level to pick form for a character definitely change your tactics for a specific combat. But I still approve of your reasoning. There are a lot of ways to approach PC builds in this game. It's what makes it so awesome!

Only my Dwarf is missing on Casting Power per se, as the rest have 1 mix-in level for item access or class ability access and the Bard's role doesn't really rely on casting power. But the Dwarf is actually a well-rounded character used as a front-liner with all the arcane buffs. But he is NOT an HoF build.

 

I personally don't bother giving my druid fighter levels anymore because by mid-late game he'll be spending almost all his time casting, and at low levels he already has Beast Claw (automatic 2 attacks per round) and shapeshift forms. I also want him to get Thorn Spray ASAP so I can more or less just fast forward from Shaengarne to after the Ice Palace/Temple. Granted, survivability is rarely an issue for any of my druids (as everyone else in the party has a disable/support/summoning spell of some sort) so Heavy Armor just doesn't seem very important.

I used to always play a dual-class fighter/druid back in IWD1, primarily because the druid weapon spells (Flame Blade, Moonblade, Star Metal Cudgel) were amazing and there was little to no disadvantage to dual-casting spellcasting-wise. I miss that about 2nd ed/Ad&D.

 

You can change the amount of points available by editing the icewind2.ini file.
Under [Game Options], add two lines
DefaultCharGenPointsPool=16
DefaultCharGenPoints=10

Now change the lines to suit you.
The first line affects the number of points you get to spend, the second affects the default points already allocated to your character. Change the second line to 18 and you'll get characters starting with all 18's.
Change the first line to be able to put more points in your characters.
You do NOT need to use all the points, so it can save you the trouble of using DaleKeeper2.

 

Yep. I have used Mindchild's fix in the past. But it's still the same stats per character. I guess you can just raise the additional points to something like 26 and only use the points you want to use, that way you are covered.

 

If you put these lines in under game options you can use any stats you want:
DefaultCharGenPointsPool=20
DefaultCharGenPoints=15

However, it starts the characters off higher than you can make a "legal" character.

Maybe
DefaultCharGenPointsPool=42
DefaultCharGenPoints=11
Would be better. I verified that will max out a human, but some of the other races might be 2 points short of max stats due to adjustments. Still, that should be sufficient unless you are trying to cheat in max stats.

 

What I really like is the chance to have a variable number per character like PnP or the IWD I/Baldur's Gate series, not a set number.

 

You can roll some physical dice, and assign whatever stats you want. The game won't force you to assign all the points.
If you use windowed mode, it's child's play to find a dice rolling program. I know there are several free AD&D character generators as well.

Just toss the dice, and assign the stats you get after modding the game to let you assign all the points you want.

Anyways, we're getting really off-track from tactics for low and mid level characters.
If you want to start a new thread, I'll be happy to continue this line of discussion.