Paladin(20) worth it anymore?

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1. Spells are nerfed and few.

2. Caster level is properly halved. Practiced Spellcaster takes a feat slot and doesn't fix it.

3. Turning undead? Whatever. Whichever undead you can turn, Bless Weapon and Great Cleave deal with for you. Bless Weapon, well, you always have at least 4 levels of paladin or something. What you can't turn you're better off using Divine Might against. And that one isn't affected by the number of your paladin levels.

4. Laying hands. Looks neat. That's it. Buy 10000 healing kits and get the Heal skill to the max and you'll be curing more with a healing kit +1 worth less than 50 gp.

5. Saves? Blah. Divine Champion has better. Neverwinter Nine has better - and of the kinds that lag behind in the paladin. And well, anyway, Divine Grace is unaffected by the number of levels. You retain it even if you multiclass.

6. Holy Sword? Whatever. All-on-Assault is better. So is Divine Wrath. You can have both.

7. Whatever a paladin(20) can do, a paladin(4+)/DC(6+)/NW9(5) is probably able to do better and with less fuss. And still retains a minimal level of Divine Favour at least, as well as Bless Weapon and other such spells.

8. Maybe just Smite Evil is a redeeming factor with +20 damage, up to 6 times a day with ES. Should be good for cutting the bosses down. Some spells might actually be useful with caster level 14 at character level 20.

Now, my paladin has the following stats:

STR 14
DEX 8
CON 12
INT 16 (yes)
WIS 14
CHA 16

Feats: Able Learner (for Spot, Listen, Appraise, Spellcraft - for Practices Spellcaster), Zen Archery (roleplaying, in honour of Daeghun), Power Attack, Divine Might

Skills: Diplomacy, Concentration, Heal, Lore - maxed. Spot, Listen, Appraise, maxed cross-class. Spellcraft 3.

Do I really want the spells and Practiced Spellcaster or do I get the Weapon Focus feat, then pump Improved and Power Criticals: Longsword, Cleave, Great Cleave (great for when buffed up - you just get surrounded on purpose with high CHA, Divine Favour, Divine Wrath, All-on-Assault, Divine Might...), plus the saves and other goodies from DC and NW9? Ranged Divine Might, anyone? Not to mention Extra Smiting to add some AB and damage on top. Like 10 times a day, whatever.

I just look at what my paladin does and at what Khelgar does and I feel like the paladin's main job is the talking... And with Able Learner for skill cost plus increased skill maximum from paladin levels, I can have all the Diplomacy in the world. Listen/Spot levels will grow. And I'll have a bit more skill points... It just feels lame to cut the already nerfed spell progression like this.

Since I'm 3000 XP from level 9 and if I want DC, I need to take WF: Longsword, what would you suggest? I don't think going 15/5 with either of the two other classes is that great, but somehow paladin(9)/DC(6)/NW9(5) doesn't feel that bad.

How strong is the incentive to take NW9 as a prestige class apart from just being a member? PM me if you don't want to post some necessary spoilers, please, if you need. If NW9 really fits well, I'd rather have it. And if so, I'm better off with DC levels instead of more paladin levels... or not?

 

i have to agree, paladins aren't that great anymore, they're mostly good for multiclassing (two levels, to get the saving throw benefit)

as a 10th lvl paladin you get an extra 2nd level spell, so a 10/5/5 would be interesting, particularly since DC bonuses also max out at level 5

you probably want the extra feat from the 6th level DC although from what i recall, the DC bonus feats you can take weren't all that hot... this is not a fighter, afterall

 

did you really need to post this on the bioware forums and here?

[Did you really need to ask this question? Different people frequent different forums and may have different input. - dmc]

[ March 17, 2007, 17:27: Message edited by: dmc ]

 

I started a pally in NWN2 and I was disappointed for several reasons:

* The effective turning level sucks. If you want to make your pally an effective undead turner, give him a cleric level and the sun domain, which, if you choose wisely, yields some nice bonus feats as well. But then, why not start a cleric right away?

* Spellcasting? Forget it. Pally and cleric spellcasting is both divine, yes, but still you have separate spellcasting levels and lists and classes which is inconvenient and on top of that appears illogical to me. And I agree, Practiced Spellcaster doesn't fix it.

Finally I ended up making a lvl-3 pally, fighter, divine champion. It allowed for the proper development of the diplomacy skill (which I value), yielded more feats and resulted in a stronger overall character. Pally and divine champion save boni stack. A light advantage.

 

I guess that a paladin/cleric/warpriest would be better, in that case. I wondered what would happen if they include the sacred templar PrC in the expansion...

Anyway, I get the feeling that a paladin is something you play only for the RP reasons. Can you at least use the Lay on Hands vs undead?

 

Too much ranting haha, the answer is no, unless you really want that smite ability.

Pally's cannot cast like clerics or turn like clerics or they would then be overpowered clerics...

Instead they are a fighter/cleric mix that loses turning, feats and spell casting for BAB, class skills and Spells. Unless you want to smite for +20 damage, it's only worth to hit about level 6 for the remove disease ability.