Party Advice Needed

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Hi there,

I'm new to the forum and new to IWD II. I have however played the the first part with the follow ups and of course BG1 and BG2.
I would like your advice on a party of six.
This is what I have in mind:

1. Rogue/ Wizard 1/ XX
2. Paladin/ Sorcerer 1/XX
3. Fighter /Druid 4/XX
4. Cleric
5. Fighter/ Paladin 4/XX
6. Fighter/ Barbarian 4/XX

What do you think of them? Also suggestions on race and stats are very welcome? Thanks!!

[ November 11, 2002, 20:36: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

What do you mean with "XX"? You mean to triple class those characters?

[ November 13, 2002, 22:29: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

 

Ah! Of course, it makes perfect sense now.

That party looks very similar to what I'd try first, except that I might possibly do pure Sorcerer - to get more and better spells faster - without the one Paladin level since there will be a Paladin after a few levels anyway.

Someone who has actually played IWD2 might want to pipe up and give some advice too...

 

Giving one level of Paladin to the Sorcerer is sound. The sorcerer will then get much better saving throws because his high Charisma bonuses will be added to all his saving throws.
Making the Sorcerer an Aasimar is a good bonus too because of the extra Charisma they get.

A low level sorcerer, whether multi-paladin or not, is very weak initially anyway and must be kept far from melée battles until he/she reaches a decent level. But the Paladin level will give him/her one extra attack point, and the ability to wear armor, use shields and weapons if necessary.

I gave my sorceress high DEX, and Weapon Finesse, so she can defend herself very well with a short sword if necessary and a bow (there are excllent arrows in the game), but you might want to give her higher INT for the extra skill points.

You should also think about who will have high Diplomacy and who will have high Bluff. High Initimidate is almost certainly for the Fighter. And remember that on some/many occasions, a paladin (even one level) will not get the Bluff dialog options, so perhaps it is no use trying to spend bluff points on them.
Finally, the purchasing agent must have high charisma (to get a good discount), so it could be your sorcerer.

[ November 11, 2002, 20:42: Message edited by: Quint ]

 

You may want to think about taking a level of ranger for your wizard rather than rogue. With ranger you get the ability to dual wield plus a few more hit points, and you can still take some points in hide in shadows and move silently. Plus ranger will give you more weapon profs (especially bows) so you do not have to spent a feat point on it. There are plenty of good crossbows in the game, but there are also lots of great bows and my sorcerers or wizards have done some damages with a bow and the rapid shot feat!

Other than that your party looks like a lot of fun. I used a fighter barb my first time around, and while he was a good character I was not impressed with the barbarian class. My alternate choice would be to use a fighter/rogue or just a pure fighter.

 

A Rogue/Wizard is a wizard that also handles the party's thieving needs, like traps. He has only a few rogue levels, perhaps even just one.
It's not a fighter, so a Ranger/Wizard is a totally different character and may I add, not a very good looking one either.

The Fighter-4/Barbarian (Half-orc) is the ultimate tank, is it not? Fighter/Rogue is not even close and pure fighter is also not as good.

Again, let me state that I do not have IWD2 (out tomorrow!) but I enjoy sharing my thoughts.

 

Actually Earl Grey the Wizard with 1 level of Ranger can be a surprisingly good character, both as a fighter and a wizard. With 1 level of Ranger, your wizard picks up several benefits. 1. extra 10 hit points which are always nice for a caster, 2. access to all martial weapons (including long swords, axes, hammers, polearms and bows) which a wizard or a wizard/rogue would have to take extra feats to acquire. And trust me, there are plenty of wizard only or wizard focused feats that you will want to take rather than spending them on weapons. 3. the ability to dual wield is nice for a spell caster since shields can affect the chances of arcane spell failure. 4. the ranger class allows you to take some skills that will help your caster such as concentration, while at the same time you can pick up some extra skill areas like move silent, hide, wilderness lore, animal empathy. 5. Unlike IWD1 where the rogue wizard (or F/M/Th) was a staple member of my party, in IWD2 I don’t think the rogue wizard is such a great combo. You really need more than just 2 or 3 levels of rogue to be successful with your rogue in the mid-later part of the game, and by taking too many levels of rogue you reduce your wizard’s ability to acquire spells. Trust me, towards the end of the game a 16th level wizard is a lot more helpful than a 5th level rogue/11th level wizard.

One final note, aside from being awesome with a bow, my ranger wizard dual wielding his long swords is a pretty decent fighter especially using stoneskin and his other buff spells…

Now, fighter barbs… Well, having played through the game with a half-orc fighter barb I can say that it is a good tank. But it is not the best tank IMHO, and of course opinions differ. The barbarian class is cool, but the abilities you get with it are not really useful. I never used Rage, since the fatigue afterwards is not worth it. The speed bonus they pick up is not real great since everyone else in your party is slower. The damage reduction benefits don’t come in until real late in the game, esp if you take 4 levels of fighter. And the ability to avoid sneak attack is next to worthless since there are very few enemies that could make use of sneak attacks (and those that could like Vipers Fang assassins or Yuan-ti pure blood rogues all attack with range weapons). Finally, while barbs get extra hit points (and this is nice) they do not make up for all the extra feats that plain fighters get.

Now pure fighters are really cool in this game. You may think they are vanilla, but all the extra feats they get really help to make them excellent characters. One my favorite things to do with a plain fighter is to give them 3 levels of rogue. This gives them the evasion feat, uncanny dodge, and sneak attack (which while weak is still some extra damage). Well, I could write a book regarding what all you can do with pure fighters, but once you get the game you will see (plus how you play is all a matter of style anyway).

One last thing and then I will end my novel. The fighter rogue is an excellent character combo, in my 4 completed games I have always had a Rogue with at least 4 & usually more levels of fighter. In three 6 person (and in one 4 person) games my fighter rogue always accounts for at least 25% of all kills and is an excellent scout, range and in-fighter, and a very effective mage killer. I could sing this combo’s virtues all day, but I will stop for now…

 

Since I finally worked it out, I won't take Rogue level unless I want to be able to Envenom weapon, but not very useful, or sneak attack, which Wizards probably won't achieve.

A wizard with high INT can cross class skill all the essential "thieving skills" such as Open Locks, Disable Device and Search. Most people I think would give their wizard good Dex too. So I now can truly throw the Rogue class into the rubbish bin...

 

I've seen the following party suggested as the "Ultimate" (minmax) party in a thread on the official forums:

Half-orc Fighter-4/Barbarian
Shield Dwarf Battleguard of Tempus
Human Cleric of Lathander
Human Rogue-3/Diviner
Human Sorcerer
Aasimar Sorcerer

Are the rogue levels necessary? What are they there for? Khazraj pointed out why not to take rogue levels.

Btw, I got the game yesterday.

[ November 14, 2002, 12:41: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

 

Why bother taking wizards - If you take multiple sorcerers then you don't have the problem of not having the spells you need but you can cast them more than a wizard. I have two lvl10 Aasimar Sorcerers with 22 Cha and I have never thought I wish I had some spell nor do I ever run out of a spell I need. They also both have high Int as well so one is my main talker and the other identifies everything. All other ability points go into constitution. They are the 2 most useful members of my party.

 

Well, since that character is a multiclass with a few Rogue levels, Wizard (Diviner) makes sense.
This party is obviously aimed at HoF, with five spellcasters, but it should do well in normal mode with 1 true tank, the Fig/Bar, and 2 semi-tanks, the clerics.

Those guys are issuing a FAQ for this party soon, but I wanted to know right now the exact build for the Rogue-3/Invoker, impatient that I am. What's the idea behind giving it exactly 3 rogue levels? I'm also very interested in knowing why a Rogue is included at all.

[ November 15, 2002, 13:24: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

 

Truly, Khazraj has a point. Rogues arent helpful enough. The monks get the evasion and improved evasion, and anyone witha high INT can get the theiving skills.

The ideal party for HoF mode would be as follows.

Sorcerer. Use him to go up levels quickly and get all the summoning spells.

Monk. Keep on level 1 untill you buy the goblin slaying dagger. Upgrade then and use it to kill all enemy goblinoids.

Fighter. Won't be helpful till after the goblin fortress. Keep on lvl. 1 till late in the game, and then shoot up all at once.

Sorcerer. You will want more than 1 spell caster, and wizards will be useless, as there is not enough spell scrolls early in the game. Keep on lvl. 1 till late.

Cleric. Keep on lvl. 1 till late. You will want this as a healing person for the heat of battle. You can always sleep to heal, but not to come back to life.

This tactic is called level squatting. Its very useful as the party's average level is kept down and the only person leveling up is the sorcerer, he will be on level 20 when everyone else is on level 1. Then, simply click on the level up button for the others.

***PLEASE NOTE***
You will not be able to multi class your people. It will shoot up in the one class. Dont say i didnt warn you.
Cheers.

 

I think why most people use 1-3 levels of rogue are the many points you can distribute. A rogue gets a lot a starting point you can also use to develop your wizard.

 

Hah. I use such a generic party. I got:

1) Aasimar Paladin of Helm
2) Human Fighter
3) Human Necromancer
4) Half-Elf Priestess of Lathander
5) Elven Monk
6) Elven Sorceress

If you wish, you may iquire as to the names of my characters, cuz they kick butt. Lol