Patriotism?

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Why have Patriotism been elevated to it's present position as the #1, most important feeling? Why is t so important to love, honour and respect you country, without any criticism? And why has the ideal of criticizing ideas, become a sin when regarding matters of the country?

And why do people get angry and upset when other people ask questions like these, and question the motives of the ruling politicians?

 

Well, I'm not going to speak for other countries, but here in Canada, our favorite national pastimes are (in no particular order):

- cheering for the Canadian NHL hockey team that will eventually lose to a U.S. team

- bashing Toronto (great fun, and so easy to do )

- criticizing our country, politicians, etc.

So I don't know what you're talking about.

 

I've never heard of patriotism being the #1 most important feeling! There are plenty of other feelings that I have noticed as being considered (rightly or wrongly!) as more important. Examples include Peace, Racial Equality, Religious Tolerance, Love, Honouring Your Family, Acceptance of Differing Sexualities, amongst others.

And EVERYONE seems to question the ruling politicians! It's the past politicians that everyone seems to get all defensive about.

 

Where i come from you'll only see patriotism when the national footballsquad plays a game, like this month's tournament in Portugal. That's about the only time all noses point in the same direction, any other moment we're only arguing among eachother.

 

Right, it's just these posts I've been reading in the past time. For instance Morsmordres response to Sarevok Anchev here: http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=000123

And people getting highly defensive when I asked about Reagan and his significance. Besides, in America, it seems (notice these to words, as I have no real personal experience or knowledge of USA) that if you do not agree with the way the country is being lead, the decision about going to war, or the all-out focus on the war on terrorism, you stand almost accused of High Treason (exaggeration). And I wanted to know why.

 

@Firestorm
I'm confused by your statement. Perhaps you mean to ask about the status of patriotism in the US specifically?

About Reagan - it's customary that when someone dies you let those who held that person in high esteem have their moment. It's just showing respect. Criticism is best offered up in a new topic and not in a mourning/eulogy topic.

[ June 09, 2004, 11:21: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

 

That might be a little bit more on the money (confusing expression), but as we can see in the above post, it's not only the US that has people feeling extrem,e pride in their countries, and not being able to cope with countrymen who doesnt feel like they do.

 

I hate to answer a question with a question, but what the heck.

What is wrong with patriotism? Humans are social creatures that thrive on community. Patriotism is nothing more than taking pride in your community. In times of crisis/war these feelings are ramped up and people take pride in coming together to support one another. In normal times when the local sports team (in which you may know some players) beats your rival it is a sense of pride.

My only response to this is that it is rubbish. Trust me, there is plenty of dissension in the United States about the war on terror and the liberation of Iraq. To the best of my knowledge the government has not set up re-education camps for dissenters (although if we go a few more days without a post from Chandos, I'll start to get worried )

I have no knowledge of what the world press says, but if that is the impression that you are getting from your media, you may want to think twice about how honest they are being.

 

@Firestorm
You may also be referring to my comment in the Reagan thread. Normally I'd say nothing to someones criticism of an American President, past or present, but to post criticisms or downplaying commments in a thread that was intended to serve as a Eulogy, seemed way out of line.

I think there is a difference between blind patriotism and choosing the wrong place and time to stir challenged discussion.

 

I think there is a general impression outside of the U.S. that Americans are more prone to blind patriotism, and ignoring the facts, than citizens of other countries.

Personally, I’m not sure that this is the case. Sure, the are plenty of examples where this is true, but there are just as many examples of the opposite. The problem IMO is that, because the U.S. is the most powerful nation on the planet, it is called to task more often than other nations. When that happens, the “blind patriot” rears its head in defense, and that is what the rest of the world sees. But you can support your country without coming across as an idiot in the process; Hacken Slash and Grey Magistrate (amongst others here) are good examples of this.

...I can't say it much better than that, so I'll just concur.

 

One part of patriotism is to stand up and say "stop it!" when the country is doing wrong.

The honour of my country is way more important to me than keeping it free from criticism. If acting with honour will incur criticism, be it. If criticism of the current policy is required by the honour of the country, be it.

Loving and supporting your country is one. Turning a blind eye to bad things going on is a different thing.

Also, I believe that supporting the current government's policy in a democratic country is stupid. There's nothing good in changing one's political views with every election.

 

@Splunge...

So, you're calling me a "Processed Idiot", huh?

 

Interesting points and one of the few I've ever posted on in the Alley.

Nothing, except when people do not understand the actual meaning of it, and they act to it accordingly. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with patriotism, you can cheer for your country at a special (sports) event.

The trouble begins when you start to look at other countries with nothing but hateful feelings and the feeling that nothing and absolutely nothing is better than your own country, which is never the case. Every country has it's flaws and if you do not recognise those just because it's where you live, that's the point where the line is crossed.

In fact I think patriotism can lead to this:

Patriotism --> Racism

It can be a thin line.

 

True, Apeman. A patriot loves his own country, a nationalist, however, hates all the others.

 

Patriotism very high in my list.

I love my country, don't mind showing it and hate to see it dissed.

You love your wife, yes? What happens when some bloke says she is a fat biatch with a face only a mother could love? You get defensive.

Being supportive of my country and defensive of it is something I'll always have.

bad thing or no, I really don't care.

 

If you love your wife there is absolutely no need to go on the defensive. I (and my wife, otherwise she wouldn't be my wife) would laugh inside and ignore this person who obviously has an IQ of 20 or has more alcohol in his blood than blood itself.

 

I was going to make one of my typically smart-assed replies to Hacken Slash, but after reading my previous post, I realise I may have actually insulted the very people I was trying to compliment.

So to clarify – you can defend your country with reasonable, thought-out arguments, and skip the chest-thumping that we sometimes witness, or you can just yell loudly and aggressively, and hope to squash any criticism through verbal intimidation. We’ve seen both of these types on the Boards; IMO H.S. and Grey (and others) fall squarely in the former group, and even though I may disagree with them sometimes, I never get the impression that “there’s no reasoning with these guys”.

 

I believe, the point I was trying to express, has been covered better by Apeman, than I could myself, so if you stille have objections, to my question, please read his answers as well.

 

Thats where me and you will differ then Apeman.

Personally, I'd rip the guys head off his shoulders and piss down his throat.

Each to his own .

 

He mors you're not going to be the reason that the national team of Enland will be kicked out of Portugal next week........are you