Playing without cheese

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I'm back to BG1 after a lot of BG2 games. Somehow, BG2 changed me. Now I don't want to use cheesy tactics anymore in BG1. So I won't do the following:
- pick up hidden objects such as:
protection +1 ring
diamond in first screen (tree)
wizardry ring
ankheg armor
fire protection ring
- steal the charming cloak in Beregost
- anyway use a charming cloak
- use Drizzt's fine equipment
- willingly split pairs (Khalid & Jaheira etc.)
- take advantage of any bug of course
- use unique equipment before identifying it
- adjust stats unrealistically (Dex 3, or Cha 3...)

I'm not sure the following is cheesy though:
- conjure monsters (a lot)
- use current magic items before identifying them
- beef up reputation in temples

I don't intend to finish all quests. I prefer to keep some equpment (boots, girdle...)

Fine for you?

 

Out of those you mentioned... I only use The beefing up rep (if I'm evil. Dont want to drop below 5. too much of a pain in the ass)

Also, I pick up the hidden items, like the diamond. It's possible your character could find it. Other than that, I dont use any of them.

 

Considering those things as 'cheese' and not living with them is just a ridiculous way to make the game a bigger challenge.(exploiting bugs is an exception, it shouldn't be done by those who play the game not the first time) It kills the roleplaying feeling, and makes the gameplay artificial. (Same with the 'what weapons etc. shall my BG(2) tank use' topic group, it makes things artificial)
If someone wants harder game, should play at higher difficulty levels.
If someone still finds the game boring and wants something new, should consider installing mods.

 

Well, the only thing I've ever done out of that list is taking advantage of unrealistic stats, however for fun I do sometimes play with the stats... Low Wisdom and Charisma scores can be funny.

I don't consider the hidden items "cheese"...

And why would you take advantage of bugs in the first place, it just doesn't make sense.

 

People take advantage of bugs to make the game easier. Like using cheat codes in games. Some people dont want any challeng, and will do anything to get ahead, as it were.

I will admit, I used to take advantage of bugs, use cheats etc when I was growing up, but now I resolutely refuse. (unless it really is more fun to. eg Syndicate, or Dune2)

 

A few days ago I start BG anew. What did I do:

1. I didn't reroll PC stats 100 times
2. Didn't pick hidden objects
3. I like Drizzt, so why should I kill him
4. Use only mellee weapons
5. Take advantage on bugs? This is so stupid, kills the roleplaying
6. I absolutely feel the need to identify an object BEFORE using it.

Is that OK? Any comments (especially for number 4)

 

Why limit yourself? using ranged weapons isnt "cheesy" It's like saying using magic is "cheesy".

I think Baronius hit it right. You dont have to limit yourself, if you want the game to be tougher, just play it on insane.

 

ranged weapons kick ass in BG, in BG2, they arent really worth it. besides, how do you guys find the hidden stuff like the ankheg armor and the diamond WITHOUT consulting a walkthrough with coordinates? i never get them bec. (at least for me) I'd never find those items if I didn't know exactly where to look...

but i always use items without identifying first, its realistic bec. my PC usually has a low wis hehe

 

Ankheg armor is not the most fortunate example for this, but generally -- especially when playing the game first time, so everything is very new and good -- one shouldn't trample everything and everybody, and solve quests like if they were some nuts which you have to eat in a determined time: you have to play smoothly, paying attention to details, moving cursor carefully over the various parts of the area you see.

Takara perfectly summarized my opinion...
So my point is that we should not limit ourselves, we should not deny something from ourselves which the game normally ALLOWS... the only exception is exploiting bugs -- my viewpoint in this case: if a newbie who plays the game first time and has enough trouble already, finds a bug and lives with its advantages, isn't a hardcore cheater.
(S)he used something provided by the GAME itself. However, if you know a bug and play the game not the first time, you should not exploit it.
As for cheat, using CLUAConsole in the game, editing your savegames, creatures etc. *is* the 'cheese'. The real cheating. This spoils the fun, especially for the experienced players.

 

Well, there still are some cheesy, or at least unrealistic, tactics that are completely allowed by IE games, such as: 1) resting for 16 hours in the middle of a dungeon, especially right next to a room full of über monsters; or 2) diffusing what would be a really tough battle by luring your enemies out the door one at a time. Both of these do seem to me to take advantage of limits in enemy AI. Try to imagine the scene:

Minion: "Master, I left your throne room for a potty break, and found out that a group of six intruders have looted the castle and wiped out all the doomguards!"
Boss: "What!? How could six intruders kill all 500 of my trained minions?"
Minion: "Well, master, as far as I could tell, the plan of having them guard every single room of the castle, and not to leave the room under any conditions, has backfired. The intruders seem to have slaughtered them room by room, taking on only four or five at any given time. Then they would set up a campfire, roast some wild game, and sing campfire songs until retiring. In the morning, they would continue clearing out the rooms. I think they've been here about a week."
Boss: "By Talos's forked lightning, I *knew* we should have coordinated the castles defense! I mean, there's only one entrance to the castle. Had we put even a third of the guards there, these six intruders would have been crushed like the vermin they are!"
Minion: "You are so wise, master..."
Master: "So, are they still here?"
Minion: "I think they're in the next room sleeping, healing themselves, and memorizing their spells so they can come in here and kill us all."
Boss: "Ha! Let them do their worst! After having cleared out my castle room by room, the last thing they'll expect is for us to wait for them here. Besides, even at full strength, they won't have a chance against the coordinated attack I have planned for them. You see, the elite doomguards by the door will draw them into combat, allowing the dreadarchers to pin them down. Then my fellwizards will swoop in, confusing their minds with foul magics. Then..."
Minion: "Um, master, the door seems to be open, and there's no one at that side of the room."
Boss: "What?!"
Minion: "I think we should OWWWW! an arrow just hit me! Wait here master, I'll go check what that was..."

 

I forgot to add the most important: I am a faithful follower of the core rules (true AD&D difficulty level). I always play the games at these level.
Things such as 'rest until healed' (IIRC it's in BG2, not just in IWD series) are ridiculous, and I recommend it only to starter players.

 

I'm with you Baronius. Personally I hate it. I will cast all my healing spells before, and rest for 8 hours. If I'm not fully healed...well, that's my prob.

 

Do you mean just in dungeons, or all the time? I mean, I frequently "rest until healed" at an inn. Why wouldn't I? It saves time from casting all those healing spells, resting, casting them again, resting, etc. You had no choice but to do that in BG1, but in IWD and BG2 you could do so.

 

Doing every possible side-quest is possibly a bit cheesey (except maybe for Paladins who can't help helping everybody).

Heal until fully recovered may be cheesey but having to cast loads of healing spells all the time is also a complete pain.

 

@Baronius: I'm not looking for a challenge at all. I use the "max HP" patch for example. Hum! Hum! No, it's just that it seems too good that you find items in rocks, or trees, or in the ground, without searching all the area with a comb. It's just that it seems too well inspired to pickpocket Algermon before someone in Baldur's Gate told you. It's just that you would be too lucky just to use only non cursed items without identifying them.
@Bion: Yeah, I forgot this "pick'em one by one" cheesy tactics. But in some cases it's hard to avoid, that's how the game is. In the bandit camp for example, in the boss tent, if you don't walk up, the archer stays in the fog.
@Grumpi: True, ranged weapns are too good, but I use them! Our opponents do too. What is certainly cheesy is to use them in close-combat, beacuse there is no malus like in BG2.

Maybe I should have talked of playing in a more realistic way.

 

My fault... I did not phrase correctly.
I meant the 'Rest until healed' option of the game, in Game options IIRC. If I remember correctly, it usually heals the party in 16 hours of rest, but it's just perhaps in IWD, and works other way in BG2.

Resting until healed in a natural way (rest for 8 hours as many times as needed) is totally okay. It's according to the rules.