POLL: Conscription

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I've been meaning to create this thread for quite some while. We've had a few conscription threads here earlies but quite a lot time has passed since the last one. So here it is, containing a little poll too! I'll edit my starting post a bit with my views soon enough but I want to get the poll cleared up first.

EDIT: Now then to my views on the issue. I'm supporting full conscription of armed forces. Mainly because I feel the need for the country to have enough defenses all the time. Finnish policy has since WWII been to have a large armed reserve making invading extremely expensive and occupation a huge strain on the enemy discouraging any possible attacks. I find this policy very reasonable and I'm not very fond of the way most European countries seem to be going. While there is no military threat to Europe right now, things might not be the same after fifty years and going back to conscription after its removal would not be easy considering that the population had no military training at all.

Additionally conscription is quite cheap. We spend a lot less to our military expenses than Sweden, Denmark or Norway by not investing huge amounts on armies mainly proficient in international crisis management, while still providing our fair amount of troops for peacekeeping missions around the world. Conscripted troops should never be used too lightly though and only voulenteers should be sent to international missions.

Also I don't feel that women should conscripted. Not because they're not up to it, not because they are in any way weaker but because you simply need to divide the people in the crisis. The entire population can't be sent to the front. A gender choice is the best solution to bring down a 50/50 division of the population. Of course women who want should be allowed to take the military training, after all to some of us it's not just a stupid obligation.

Lastly I finished my military service last october and am a proud corporal medic of the Finnish defense forces.

EDIT2: Question2 is actually about wartime conscription and not peacetime. I probably should have made that more clear.

[ December 16, 2006, 03:25: Message edited by: Morgoroth ]

Poll Information
This poll contains 4 question(s). 31 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

Poll Results: Conscription (31 votes.)

How do you think your country should arrange its defense? (Choose 1)
* Private army only - 13% (4)
* Small private army with a large conscripted reserve - 16% (5)
* Full conscription - 16% (5)
* Voulenteers only - 45% (14)
* Other - 10% (3)

Under which conditions would you agree with draft of the civillian population? (Choose 1)
* Everytime the government needs more troops - 6% (2)
* Only under very extreme circumstances threatening the existance of my country - 68% (21)
* Never - 19% (6)
* Other - 6% (2)

Should women be exempt from conscription laws? (Choose 1)
* Yes - 32% (10)
* No - 58% (18)
* Undecided - 10% (3)

Have you been in military service or had other forms of military education? (Choose 1)
* Yes - 29% (9)
* No - 71% (22)

 

Personally I'm for only having those who want to be involved be involved, barring extraneous circumstances.

I think that this point, if we do indeed support sexual equality, women should conscripted even if they are not used to fight on the front lines, they can still perform duties such as driving vehicles or doing ever so glorious paper.

Me personally, I'm exempt from military service for medical reasons and would have to serve my country in other ways then with a gun. For that reason I'm not worried about conscription for my own sake, but I'd hate the thought of my little brother being forced to into the military. Seeing as he's 19, he'd be the prime age for the draft.

 

I don't mind those who volunteer to to into the army, but it's just not my cup of tea. An army of volunteers seems good enough for me.

As for being drafted into the army... I would never agree with that. I'd rather leave the country or rot in jail.

Woman or man, drafting is a huge no-no to me.

I never had any form of military education and I don't want to.

 

I said volunteers, and only a draft under extreme circumstances. However, that is a very ambiguous statement, as I'm sure some would think that the War on Terror ( ) is extreme, but I think only if our country (being the US) is being invaded should we have a draft. Although, if we got invaded, I am sure many people would sign up anyways.

Women should be drafted too. They want equality, but they don't want to be drafted. That is a bull**** move, and I think if women want to be considered legal equals, they should accept the draft too. I personally hate drafts, but If I am getting drafted, I think anyone above 18 (and probably below 40) should be drafted.

 

Full conscription. A: then we'd have enough troops to actually fight counterinsurgency campaigns succesfully.
B: People would be much more reluctant to rush off to war, since their asses would be on the line. My country really needs to quit with pointless foreign adventures (and I'm not just thinking of Iraq and Vietnam here), and this'd do it. Sure, there're other solutions to that I'd pursue first, but we're talking about this one.
C: The populace would bear the burden of war equally. Reading about WWII, what jumps out immediately is how many 'well to do' folks found themselves on the front line (editor in chief of the NYT, etc). As above, there're other solutions I'd pursue first, but we're talking about this one.

Yes, draft in wartime is good, for all the reasons I outlined above (and the same caveats apply).

Yes, women should be drafted. Unless someone wants to start making an argument that they're somehow not capable (of course, anyone making this argument will have to explain to the numerous females who've found themselves on the firing line in Iraq why they're unfit to serve).

Care to elaborate? I'm getting the impression you're talking about drafting all the males, but I doubt that's what you mean.

 

Conscription is a silly idea, in my opinion. What's the point of having a load of soldiers who don't want to be there? They'd be hopeless!

 

Since my country doesn't have a large population while still in a state of war with the North, conscripts are really the only way to go. As for women, I believe they should be drafted if they really want 'equality.'

My check-up is in like 3 months, and I'll be drafted after I finish college, but I don't mind that much.

 

Well, the in WW-II German army overran most of Europe with conscripts, and were beaten by conscript armies from Britain, the Commonwealth, Russia and the US. Being conscripted doesn't tell really say much about fighting value.

Even though there is always a degree of social selection, it ensures that people from all social classes and ranks of life end up in the armed forces. Trust me that it makes a difference, at the very least in tone, when highly educated and less educated people are mixed up in a unit. It's an antidote against a closed 'army society' that can be found in all-professional armies.

One side benefit is also that in democracies politicos will think twice before sending conscripted armies out on adventures.

I was conscripted for a year of service. I'm a Hauptgefreiter, Fernmeldetruppe. I think conscription is a good idea.

 

Yes well 50/50 of the potential conscription forces is more like it. Obviously you can't draft and send retired people and those medically unfit.

You'd be surprised to see what people can achieve when fighting for survival.

 

The basic idea by having people from all social layers together down the dirt for a time being I find heathy for any community. I didn't like beeing a conscript tough.

 

Why shouldn't you fight for your country in times of war? Who else will if you don't?

 

Every healthy male (and voluntary females) should get a military training because you can't know when you will need it. But I think conscripts should be reserved for extreme cases. I say the army should consist of professionals with conscript reinforcements for extreme cases.

 

I was lucky enough to avoid being drafted (we have a professional army in France). I hate uniforms and I can't take orders at any time. I don't believe that armies can achieve much either except as a deterrent (they certainly can't prevent ongoing wars and are not adapted to deal with humanitarian crises).
Anyway some people dig that sort of things and I'd leave this to them. If my country was in danger I'd be much more useful as a civilian (don't overlook the importance of resistance and participation in the war effort, I believe it's much more important than wallowing in the mud with a SMG).
I don't know -and hopefully won't ever find out- if I have what it takes to be a hero or a patriot but one thing is certain, I'll never be a soldier.

 

If it is like the War in Iraq right now. It is a stupid, pointless, moralless war that I don't want to die for. Plus, I hate my country anyways .

 

I havent given it much thought, or taken all facts into consideration. There are valid arguments in favour of drafts. But off the top of my head I say no. Mainly because, back then, I would have fought tooth and nail to avoid military service. Luckily I did not have to.

Should Germany come under threat, though, I would join the Bundeswehr and fight.

 

im with harbourboy on this, conscription is stupid. moral is near impossible to maintain and policing all of the deserters would be a nightmare. and what would you do? how would you force people to fight? shoot them if they refuse was always the way, locking them up doesnt work as many would rather go to jail then fight.

now, to my opinion on a draft, i believe that drafting soldiers for the front line is wrong, but a 2 year draft between the ages of 16 - 18 into support areas is a good idea, teach youngsters life skills and discipline.

 

Conscription wouldn't be used in a war like that.

Put it this way, if someone attacked the US directly and tried to invade, the government bring in conscription would you say "No, I'm not fighting, you can't make me" or would you join up and help in defending your country? That's what conscription's about in my mind.

 

Weighing up your chances might be a good bet. I think I'd probably rather be invaded and alive than patriotic and dead.

 

As unfortunate as it is, military is needed, since without it you become a target (even to well-intending long-time buddies). And since it is natural that everyone should be able to defend himself, conscriptism is needed.

However, I have three big issues in how it is handled in Finland.
1. Women freed of service.
2. Religious whatnot freed of service.
3. Civil-service, the only option to military-service, is discouraged and twice as long.

If there is conscriptism, it needs to handle the whole population equally. So Finland doesn't only disciminate part of the population, but also tries to deter people from choosing any other alternatives. Having met a fair number of people, who defend the current system, it strikes as pompous patriotism where everyone does exactly like the patriots say and "end of discussion."

So I joined the civil-service just to show them the middle-finger and gain a year's worth of work-experience on the way. Conscriptism is a valid option only if everyone does it, no matter religion, skin colour, age, or sex, and a equal option is given to those who don't want to go to the army. Sadly, Finland has failed in this.