POLL: Divorce: Live in the hell or Succumb to the sin

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Let's have a theoretical situation now. You are happily marriaged with a woman/man you loved and have been for several years. Then one day it all goes wrong. Your husband/wife looses his/her job and starts drinking. You try to support her and you try to help her but to no avail. She continues drinking and the man/woman you once loved seems now so distant. Just when you think it can't think it could be any worse he/she hits you first once, then a second time, and blames you for his/her misfortune. Claiming that you were not there to support her when she needed you the most. Days go past and it just continues. You are afraid to speak about it to anyone and friends at work start to wonder how exactly you got all those bruises. Eventually you tell them what to do and they naturally want you to get a divorce and talk to the police. When you get home from work you find your husband/wife bragging about how he/she has been going around town ****ing every man/woman he/she met. You realize that your partner is now beyoned reasoning, and he/she has definently changed from the man/woman you fell in love with.
My question is quite simple, what would you do or advice a friend of you in similar situation to do?

This topic is about two things really. Family violence and divorce. I did not involve children in this scenario but they could well be involved. I myself expirienced a very bitter and violent divorce between my parents when I was young and I can say that it was no fun watching it.

Poll Information
This poll contains 2 question(s). 29 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

Poll Results: Divorce: Live in the hell or Succumb to the sin (29 votes.)

If I was the victim I would do the following... (Choose 1)
* Take divorce as soon as possible and report him/her to the police - 48% (14)
* Not take divorce but report him/her to the police in hope of them being able to restrain him/her - 7% (2)
* Take divorce but not report him/her to the police - 38% (11)
* I would take his/her abuse in the hope that one day he/she once again becomes the man/woman I loved. - 3% (1)
* Other (pleace elaborate) - 3% (1)

If a friend of mine would be the victim I would advice him/her to do the followi (Choose 1)
* Advice him/her to take divorce as soon as possible and report to the police. - 62% (18)
* Advice him/her to take divorce but not to report to the police. - 24% (7)
* Advice him/her to report to the police but not to take divorce. - 10% (3)
* Advice him/her to stick with his/her wife/husband - 3% (1)
* Other (pleace elaborate) - 0% (0)

 

I don't divorce her, period. But I file the civil court for separation immediately and take it to the local bishop's tribunal. Then, I ask the tribunal to investigate the validity of the marriage. There is some chance that she has never been able to undertake marital vows and enter into marriage validly. Otherwise, if the marriage is valid, I stick with her. In separation, if need be.

Also, cheating is wrong and mean and all, but if someone ****s everyone he or she sees, then the person is ill more likely than anything and needs professional aid. Sucks as it does, but it's hard to blame people for being ill.

 

I would definently take divorce. Getting out of the relationship would be required. I would not want her haunting me in my future as my wife in no way. I would not report her to the police however. I think it would be too painful for me to go through a trial or even questioning. My priority would be to get out of the relationship as fast as possible and get as far away from her as I can. I would not want to be bound to anyone I can't love and have her preventing me from loving again.

To a friend I would advice both divorce and reporting to the police. Even though I don't think I could go through the issue with the police I simply could not advice anyone else not to do so. In principle I think these issues need to be handeled. The problem is that around here family violence cases are very difficult in courts. It's still a bit a taboo here and too many times end up with just giving a warning. I often support light punishment but family violence is very well rooted in the Finnish society and almost allways combined to alcohol. No warning can ever stop it.

The illness in this case would most likely be alcoholism, and the problem is that at least in Finland no one can be forced to treatment to alcoholism against their free will.

 

Well, perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough. I wouldn't marry another woman. I would avoid a civil divorce at nearly all costs, if the religious marriage were valid. I would insist on separation if she posed any danger to my life or health. I would report her to the police if there had been a need to protect the children or myself and separation weren't enough. I would even opt for civil divorce if separation didn't help. But I wouldn't marry another woman even in a civil ceremony if I had a valid religious marriage. However, if the religious marriage were invalid, I would get a civil annulment or divorce, as well, and marry someone else.

EDIT (about invalidity): It could be invalid if she had been for whatever reason unable to make an informed decision at the moment of the conclusion of marriage or unable to deliver when taking the marital oath. If someone starts acting like that after marriage, there is a chance that there had been an underlying cause of such behaviour already before the marriage. If it had been something really serious, then the person wasn't able to enter into marriage validly when attempting it. Therefore, there is no marriage in the first place. Unlikely in this scenario, but I would still give it a go.

 

How would this be even possible? As stated in the beginning of the scenario you would have been married happily for several years until it all just crumbles down. Could the religious marriage still be invalid, if so then how?

 

Depends on whether any kind of trust can be salvaged. Probably not, tho, in this case. Too often people get involved in relationships knowing that the other person has serious issues, but thinking that they'll be able to change the other person. Usually it doesn't work.

A second question (which perhaps Chev could also answer): what if children were involved? Or what if the abused partner very much wanted children, but was rightly afraid of how the abusing partner would function as a parent? Does it make sense for a child to be parented by someone with such serious problems?

 

Separation can settle the problem with children's safety, on one hand, without divorce. If not, then civil divorce. But no remarriage for me. In the eyes of God and the Church, I would still be married so long as the marriage were valid.

On the other hand, children have no bearing on the validity of the marriage. I wouldn't be stupid enough to miss the chance to free myself or my children from someone dangerous to life or health. I could convalidate the marriage for the sake of the children even in the absence of romantic feelings, but not with an abusive or dishonest person.

 

'Staying together for the sake of the children' is something that's always made me laugh.

Children growing up surrounded by a loveless, tense and trustless marriage will not benefit in any way at all, imo.

 

Depends what you consider a loveless marriage. If you mean you don't love the spouse romantically but you can trust the person and be close without feeling like a stranger, then it can work. Without trust or with too much tension, it won't really. Anyway, my point is that even if I end up civilly divorced, I'm not going to remarry if the religious marriage is valid. This said, I'm shutting up for a while.

 

Abuse is not to be tolerated. That is one circumstance where Divorce is not only tolerated, but advised. Infidelity is another. Forgiveness can be included, but if abuse or infidelity continue, then divorce may well be the only palatable option.

As for job loss or permanent injury, that is something that can happen, and I would not advocate divorce under those circumstances.

Divorce should only be a last resort, but should not be ruled out. If both sides have some love for each other, and faith in God and His commandments, they can repair this marriage, but if that is not the case, then a divorce is a sad necessity.

 

I'm a bit confused here; practically speaking, how is "staying together in separation" any different from divorce?

 

In separation, you're still legally married -- you don't have to marry again but simply remove the condition of separation when things get better. Sometimes, it's called "separation from bed and table".

 

I'd seek a divorce, but I wouldn't report her to the police. I cannot think of anything more demasculating than saying my wife beat the crap out of me. Call it male pride if you will, but no thank you, I won't be calling the police.

 

I agree with everything chev has said, so I won't say it again.

 

Leave. Get out. Go far away. Reporting to the police only works in very rare cases -- usually it just pisses off the abuser. Restraining orders don't work against nutcases.

I certainly understand Chev's sentiment on this -- I don't personally agree with it, but then I'm not particulary religious (that occured when my religious leader told me the 'Holy Spirit' was guiding my step-father's hand -- silly me, I thought it was drunken rage...).

I've never seen a reformed abuser. There's always the 'occasional' relapse.

 

If a female friend of mine was in an abusive relationship, I'd make a point of letting the abusive dick know that I wasn't pleased. I would think nothing of beating the jerk like a dog--or like he beat his ex or kids!

 

And then you'd end up in prison, quite possibly. It's even likely the abused woman wouldn't thank you; people who stay in abusive relationships tend to have, ah, issues.

Chev, can't say I share your feelings on the issue, but I gotta admire them. You have my respect (as though the respect of an anonymous internet personality means anything to you )

 

@Chev
From your post I gather that you would steadfastly refuse to entertain her, specially if there is a child involved. Lets assume she doesn't come to her sences and remains just as abusive. You live in seperation but will not divorce her. From a practical point of view, is that even possible?
She doesn't like you - you dont like her - there is a history of abuse, regardless of who started it - now you are living seperately. Just the fact that you no longer live together and dont intend to either (unless she changes her way and comes to you, which is not the type of personality who would find themselves in this situation) would allow a judge to grant divorce if she asked for it. If either person commits that the relationship is irrepairable and that they have already started living apart then (for a few years), atleast from what I know of the Indian judicial system, divorce would be granted to the wife.

I know you can only be held responsible for your actions but is your senario possible?
Also looking at it from the viewpoint of a woman, where the husband is generally more prone to physical violence, would you advise the same and how do you think it would end?

 

There's got to be a way they got away with it so long. I'd make sure that if the cops got involved, he'd go down too.

 

Not really if the woman testifies against you then you'll be the one going to prison and he'll probably remain, and this is probably how it would go. As Amaster says, those who stay in violent relationships either have blind hope in things getting better or blind love when the man/woman is calm (usually when he/she stays even a day out of the bottle).