POLL: Most Dangerous Country

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I read that in recent polls held in Europe by the European Union and in the US, Israel was voted as the most dangerous country in the world today (in terms of danger to world peace). I don't agree with the results, of course I have my own subjective view point of things. I think the question itself is rather simplistic and can't be answered shortly, but I think it does show where the general public opinion is at. The polls mentioned above tried to cover all parts of the population in Europe and in the US, so I guess media coverage and uninformed opinions influenced the results, but again that was the polls' target, to get the "general public" opinion. it seems to me most people posting here use their heads and try to think beyond what is handed to them by the media, so I was wondering what you are thinking. if you think I omitted a country or that the question itself is .... post your thoughts.

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 55 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

Poll Results: Most Dangerous Country (55 votes.)

Most Dangerous Country (Choose 1)
* China - 4% (2)
* France - 0% (0)
* India - 4% (2)
* Iran - 4% (2)
* Israel - 13% (7)
* North Korea - 18% (10)
* Pakistan - 2% (1)
* Syria - 4% (2)
* UK - 2% (1)
* US - 45% (25)
* Other (please specify in post) - 2% (1)
* Sorry, stupid question ... - 4% (2)

 

I voted the US simply because they have the greatest means of doing damage, even if they may not have the inclination. No matter what kind of nut gets into power in Iran or anywhere else and whatever they do, the world can deal with it and smash the threat, probably lead by the US. But if for some reason the US would go berserk there is no limit to what they could do.

It might be a thousand times more likely that North Korea starts up a conflict but that would be a problem possible to solve, if for some obscure reason the US decided to wreck the world there would be no one able to stand against it.

I hope this is not construed as America bashing, I just think that the country with the most power is the most dangerous.

 

Depending on who you are and what your political ideals are at the present time, the US can be very, very dangerous...

Oh, but wait, 2004, the year to get away from America bashing, not start it anew

 

I voted "other" since Palenstine is not on the list.

It looks like the United States is going to win this poll - on the Alley of Dangerous Angles - what a surprise!

 

China. Both means and inclination. Believing they'll keep it inside is more than just wishful thinking.

 

US for sure, as long as motivation plays no part. China, North Korea, Palestine, whoever you want to name may be more willing to actually do something about endangering the world, but as joacqin said, if the US decided it wanted to destroy the world, it doesn't seem likely that anyone would be able to stand against their firepower. Mainly because most countries wouldn't be able to let go of their hate/mistrust of each other long enough to band together Fellowship-style to take down the Sauron-like US.

BTW, none of this is meant as a joke per se. Like I said, willingness of those in question plays a major role in my stated opinion.

 

Blackhawk - Palestinians are not on the list, they don't have their own country yet.
I thought about putting groups of people in - Palestinians, terrorist groups (nothing is being implied here) but the poll deals with countries. try to think which country makes your "favorite" dangerous group's life easier...

 

Voted Israël.

A small country, a small economy, a small army that doesn't present a menace to the world by itself. As stated elsewhere, when it comes to hypothetically going berserk, the US or Russia would get my vote any day.
But Israël, by misbehaving the way it has been lately, has the power to make one billion Muslims go really berserk.

 

In that case, I would have voted for Iran. They actively support terrorism in Palenstine.

 

It's unclear to me who exactly supports Palestinian terrorism and to what extent. Did Iraq support the actual attacks or family victims or both or none? How actively is Syria supporting the Lebanese hezbolla fighters? Is Iran supporting yet another group and in what way?
Some loonies even accused the EU of "supporting terrorism" because of some books distributed to Palestinian schools a while ago.

But what the Israëli authorities are doing to Palestinians is a lot less vague. It's unifying against them nearly all Arabs (united Arabs is something uncommon in history) and breeding antisemitism worldwide, reopening old wounds.

I'm not saying Israël is the only one to blame here, but their actions are very more likely to spark Islamism than Iran's actions. Same goes for US, UK and such on a lesser scale.

 

In a hypothetical "going berserk" situation, definitely the US would be a big problem followed by China, Russia, and Britian.

I went with Syria, however, since motivation has to play a role. Syria has publicly acknowledged their support of terrorist attacks against Israel, America, and Europe and that has to take precedence over something that probably won't happen.

 

There are no dangerous countries, only dangerous people.

 

Not to get too far off topic...

Iran is actually proud of their support of terrorism in Palestine. The line item is listed every year in their budget spending report which is, consequently, printed in the state-controlled newspaper. The item is usually titled something like "Funding Resistance Fighters in Palestine".

Woo hoo - 500 posts

[ January 02, 2004, 20:28: Message edited by: Blackhawk ]

 

Oxymore - I don't understand your logic.

let's say you and I were part of a 20 member community. the community knows that if you do something I don't approve of, I will make the whole community suffer. according to your logic, you are the most dangerous member of the community. why?

in Palestinian and Iranian schools children are shown a very negative,twisted and racist image of the Jews, I will not detail it here. this is something those countries are not hiding, in fact they are very proud of educating their next generations in this manner (very sadly I have to say that in my country,a few very conservative religious schools are giving their students a smiliar image of Muslims). so you really think it matters what Israel will or will not do concerning antisemitism/sparking Islam?
reopening old wounds? AFAIK antisemitism has never been "closed".

 

I'll try to explain my view using your example. Hopefully, it'll get clearer, if not ... well, I tried.

So we are a community of 20 people, I am the meanest guy around, I know kung-fu and can take on all other 19 dudes with one hand tied behind my back; everyone here knows it very well for I've kicked some major ass before and don't hesitate to flex my muscles from time to time. I'm also hated by the other 19, for I like the N-gage and they don't, the reasons for all this hatred is more than just a game console though, and all this **** is beginning to date, but the N-gage issue what's on the surface.

Now you, you are the weakest of the group, the official push-over, you kind of have the status of martyr. Given you fancy the GameBoy just like 18 members of the group, you get sympathy from them. Furthermore, seeing me treating you like dirt every day, they feel even more sympathy for you, but since they can't possibly try to fight me, they'll encourage you to take any cheap shot you can at me whenever the occasion arises. Meanwhile they tell people they know from other communities of what kind of a bastard I am and what I'm doing to you. It's not long before Gameboy fanboys all over the world start to hate N-gage fanboys.

Back to me, I do exactly the same, I tell my fellow N-gage fans all over the world what kind of filth Gameboy players are, I tell them how you attack me from behind, how you hurt my cat, how you spit in my soup, etc. It's not long before N-gage fanboys all over the world start to hate gameboy fanboys.

I'm still the meanest mofo on the block, and as you're angering me more and more, I'm beating up more and more. All over the world N-gage and gameboy lovers come to blows regularly.

It is in my power to stop. Stop. Just quit beating you up, and be the bigger man. It's not in your power to stop, for you're a weakling child who was beaten up during all your life even before I came to town, and consequently suffer a severe mental disorientation, especially towars N-gage fans.

So you will undubitably keep on taking cheap shots at me for some time, but as my actions no longer you don't justify yours, even gameboy lovers might begin to try and reason you. I won't even try to reason you myself, for you would not listen, besides I'm making quite an effort not to smash your face against the wall right now so I'll let others talk to you. After some counseling I hope you will begin to see I have changed and we can from now on live together, or at least coexist.

It's also in my power not to stop, but on the contrary beat you up even more, break your nose, fracture your head, perhaps even kill you. Yeah, I might do that. I have a past full of bad memories as well, you know, people going after me, trying to hurt me, hurting me, hurting me again, hurting me even more... killing me. And now you, you are hurting me, I won't let you, I'll kill you. I'll kill you before you can kill me. I don't care if you think the exact same thing.

Yeap, I'm the most dangerous, for it's in my power to stop all this madness, you and your gameboy playing friends can't do nothing but react, you're too weak, to divided for anything else.

 

It is also important to know that Isreal has killed more than twice as many civilians as Palistians has but somehow the palastinians are the "terrirists". Now I'm not saying that there aren't terrorists nor that they shouldn't be all reigned in. It's just in terms of human life, economic damage, and lowering of quality of life, Isreal has done far, far more damage to the palastinians than they could ever hope to do to Isreal. Most everybody else outside America realize but for some reason we don't tell them to cool down, stop building illegal settlements, stop firing missles into crowded marketplaces, locking down towns so that nobody can work...etc, etc, etc. Both sides are at fault but its like a big bully beating a little kid senseless because he made fun of them. But then again, we prefer the easy way here in America and so does Sharon. Unfort the easy way is rarely the right way.

 

Oxymore - if I understand, basically what you're saying is that Israel should be the bigger "man", just like many left wingers (myself included) think over here. the thing is, I see my country paying the price of this mistake everyday, this whole thing could have ended years ago with more sensible leaders on both sides. I still disagree with Israel being most dangerous, Israelis and Palestinians are the ones paying the price of this conflict more than anyone else. other Muslim countries are sticking their nose because Israel is involved, this is just an excuse. where were those countries when Syrian president Asad (Sr.) killed thousands of Palestinian refugees after revolting? where were they when Jordanian king Abdallah (Sr.) did almost the same thing? what I'm saying is countries like Iran and Muslim terrorist groups use the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as an excuse for their "Jihad". do you really think if this conflict ends then extreme Muslim countries would stop sponsoring and supporting terrorists? they would stop developing WOMD that will eventually be in control of dictators? from your N-gage Gameboy reply it seems to me you think all trouble in our planet originates from Israel, with Israel being able to stop it at will anytime. if this is the case, I guess our starting view-points of things are just too far apart.

Jschild and Oxymore - I hope you understand that if there will be no Palestinian violence (call it terrorism/freedom fighting)as an initiative there will be no violence (call it terrorism/self defense) from the Israeli army. if there will be no Israeli violence as an initiative, there will still be Palestinian violence. this has been proven before on short cease-fires. some - not all - Palestinians (and for that matter some other Muslims) will not be content until there is no Israel, and they think any way, violent or other, is allowed in pursuit of that goal.

and Jschild - please try and spell my country's name correctly. I know it's longer than USA but it's not that long. I would try to make sure I know a country's name before I pass judgement on it's actions.

 

I apologize for the misspelling of Israel. But again, take a look at the number of dead before the 2nd Entifada. Israel had killed nearly 25 times the number of civilians than had the Palastinians. Only after all the suicide bombings has these numbers became more equalized (to the tune of 2:1 instead of 25:1). Both sides are very far from blameless. You are right on one point. There are muslims who will never accept Israel. Then again, looking at the massive numbers of illegal settlements that are still going up despite Sharon's pledge that no more will be built just shows that there as Israeli's who will never accept the Palastinians. Remember, the Palastinians asked for the UN to protect the borders and it was Israel who refused. Until both governments accept each other there will be no peace. Unfortantly neither Sharon nor Arafat really give a damn about peace or the suffering of the other side. Which is truly sad indeed.

 

I don't know where your sources of information come from. I admit, I don't know the exact ratio of civilians killed on both sides. but, suicide bombings have been executed by Palestinian "freedom fighters" since the early 90's. so if you know what you are talking about, the ratio has been 1:2 all these years. and I hope you know that there were times during the late 90's these suicide bombings where happening once a week on average. today, with the help of the fence being built and the huge expanses spent on constant border patrols most bombers are caught before they succeed - on average a suicide bomber is caught about once a week on the way to his target.
let's clarify some things. Palestinian suicide bombers do their deeds with a full intention to kill civilians - preferably women and children (as they believe this hurts Israeli morale more). most Palestinian civilians are killed because they were located near firing Palestinian terrorists. I don't know whose decision it was for them to be so close to each other - the innocent Palestinian civilians or the Palestinian terrorists who use their "brothers" as human shields.
I also don't know what would make a Palestinian mother send her 8 year old boy to throw rocks at soldiers. I do know this can sometimes result in her mourning her child's death. I was in the army, and I know that when you are under fire, you return fire to the area you are being fired from. if a Palestinian gunman shoots at soldiers with young boys running around him throwing rocks, I don't have to tell you what can sometimes happen.
on several different occasions, a Hammas lab where Palestinian "freedom fighters" were making bombs, accidents happened and the labs blew up. always several civilians are killed when this happens, along with the lab workers. Palestinians claimed this was because of an Israeli missile, and counted those killed as civilian casualties. even if this was true, why was are these labs located in the first floor of a building with 10 or so Palestinian families, or in a hidden room next to a family's apartment?

I could go on with examples, but since you tried to compare the amount of suffering on both your posts, I thought you'd like to get another point of view, take it or not. I guess this is part of Palestinian propaganda, it's very appealing to inflate the number of your casualties, as it helps your image as being helpless and abused.

I can totally agree with you about the settlements, but let's keep things under proportion here too. you said massive numbers, and once again I have to question your information sources. yes, settlements have gone up since Sharon's pledge, but if I remember correctly they are no more than 20. and please understand what is a settlement - a few families in 2-3 caravans, waving the Israeli flag. I think those people are insane, and don't understand why Sharon sends Israeli soldiers to protect them when Palestinians from the neighboring village come to "welcome" their new neighbors. but you have to understand that the overwhelming majority of the Israeli society knows and accepts that Palestinians will get their own country and most of these settlements will be abandoned. you were right when you said there are Jews who won't accept a Palestinian country, Jewish people like that have said they would live in those settlements even under Palestinian regime, because they say it's holy land and I guess they value rocks and hills more than human lives. what they are not doing today and will not do is go and blow themselves up in the middle of the Palestinian cities. several Muslim groups responsible for past suicide bombings in Israel have announced they will not cease with the birth of a Palestinian country, only with the end of Israel. I hope this makes it clear that the situation is not that simple, if only those mean Israelis would stop blowing up those poor Palestinians, everything will be resolved. there are too many extremists on both sides, and because of them the larger population is suffering.

 

I have trouble seeing any "mere" terrorism as the most dangerous threat in the world today. What is the worst they can do? Blow up a nuke in Paris/London/New York? That is pretty damn dangerous but the world would be able to go on pretty much as it is. Now what would happen if China and the US deciced to deck it out? Zap, bam, bom, no more civilization. It may be less likely now than during the Cold War but the risk is always there, especially since it is humans who are in charge.

The very fact that rogue states are seen as rogue states shows that they arent very dangerous in the big picture, especially since if they ever did try something spectacular, like for instance 9/11 they would be squished flat. The thousands of people killed by terrorists are nothing compared to the billions which would be killed if a person like Hitler would come into power in China, the US or even France or India. Plenty of nukes to go around. The threat of terrorism is childs play compared to the threat of the good ole fashioned threath of a Nuclear Holocaust.