POLL: Swashbuckler vs. Fighter/Thief

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IMO the swashbuckler is stronger than F/T beacause

A) He gets +1 AC bonus every five levels.

B) He gets +1 to hit and damage every five levels.

C) he levels up faster than a F/T.

The only drawback that I know of is that he can't backstab. I'm currently playing as an evil Swashbuckler and has just finnished SoA. For the time being he hits around 30 damage for every hit and has -13 AC. Please post your own comment.

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 20 user(s) have voted.
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Poll Results: Swashbuckler vs. Fighter/Thief (20 votes.)

Swashbuckler vs. Fighter/Thief (Choose 1)
* Swashbuckler - 40% (8)
* Fighter/Thief - 60% (12)

 

I would say F/T because:

1) He can use nearly all the weapons and armor in the game.

2) He can backstab, which IMO kicks ass.

3) He gets multiple attack per round, opposed to the swashie.

4) He gets to choose from two HLA pools.

5) Has the ability to get the fighter stronghold, that is better than the thief's in many ways

Well that was about it...

 

Another playing style question -- in some ways the swashie is better in that he gets to some kick butt high levels (40, IIRC) which the F/T cannot hope to attain. He also maxes out his thieving skills rather quickly, though as has been mentioned before, having a thieving skill over 100% is kind of pointless as there is always a 1% chance of failure.
The F/T, though, he can be used (in the early parts of the game, anyhow) as a versatile fighter or thief -- he can pack on a whackload of armor and beat down the opposition, then divest himself of it and do the thief thing -- he can specialize with any weapon he desires and his hit points and the CON bonus should be higher that a swashbuckler's of similar level and experience.
Thing is, once the Swashie gets Use Any Item, he too can use all armors and weapons (though he will not have the specialization bonus) and his high level will compensate for the HP issue. It looks like I've talked myself, intellectually, into the Swashie, but the fact is, I like the versatility of the F/T better -- tank one minute, sneaky bugger the next.

 

Everything Daephon said, plus...

- The F/T can get exceptional strength.
- The F/T can were platemail when needed, switch back to leather for theiving.
- The F/T will have better theiving skills.
- The F/T can specialize in any weapon, and max-out any fighting style.

And to correct LKD

He can use the weapons, but with no skill. Even with UAI, you still can't gain proficiencies in denied weapons. By that level it's only -1 to hit and damage, which is no big deal, but no extra attacks. Just something to think about.

 

Bad logic on my part -- I meant that there would be no proficiency.

I do, however, have to take issue with the statement that the F/T would have better thieving skills -- the swashbuckler would have higher levels, therefore more points to invest in his skills, would he not? He incurs no penalty to his thieving skills for having this kit, he just loses the backstab ability.

 

Fighter/Thief definately. At high levels have him dual wield two longswords (one being the +5 flametongue that sets your strenth to 22). He'll have 4 attacks, improve haste him to get 8, then Assassinate. The enemies start dropping like flies.

 

LKD - Ok you're right - I was thinking he only got 20% per level as well as no backstab. Even so, a F/T would only be about a level or 2 behind the swashie in theiving skills, which is no big deal. As long as you max out Open Locks and Find Traps on creation, and distribute whatever else to Stealth, you should be fine throughout chapter 2 at least. There are 2 leather armors that boost those stats, as well as the Boots of Stealth, all available in the Maevar and Umar Hills quests respectively, neither of which you need stealth for anyway. The other skills are just gravy.

 

How about a DualClass Swashbuckler/Fighter switched over around level 10 or 15? he would get either +2 or +3 to hit and damage and +3 or +4 to AC, have 100 in most of the important things skill wise. Would this be a valid character, or would it end up weaker than a Pure swashbuckler or multi fighter/theif

 

Another point on the F/T:

You can hide in shadows with leather armor, then switch to full-plate, and then backstab with the full-plate equipped...

 

Fighter/thief, I'd say. But a multi one, or many fighter levels. Like 13/X. Or starting with thief and then getting fighter levels after the skills have been honed nicely. But then... even two levels of fighter (can't get lest for dualling) get you the ability to get ***** on weapons and full on styles.

If you don't use backstabbing or pickpocketting, it might even be good to take some low number of thief levels and continue as a fighter, with fighter stronghold, ***** on weapons (unless it only works one way round), more attacks per round, plate armour etc.

 

Is the fighter stronghold really that good?

I prefer Swashbuckler my self. I just have a thing against mulit/dual classed PCs.

 

Three important things are forgotten about the F/T - the absolute winner:
- The character gets the better saving throws, and sometimes the thief, sometimes the fighter values are active...
- If you calculate, that the swashbuckler advancing fastern than the warriror, and the F/T experineces are divided, even than the THAC0 will be lower of the F/T.
- If you backstab, your THAC0 has -4 advance... In most of the case, you can get rid of your enemy in one sneak attack. Doing 70-80 damage is the average...

I hate swashbuckler, because i like the backstabbing. I preffer assassins! They are much better than any thief class. At 1,5 million XP they are realy ballanced!

 

I play with an human 7th level Fighter and dualed to thief, and is probably a grinding machine with mastery in longsword, katana and two weapons. Comparing him with Yoshimo, Yoshi is really weak. (Not the weakest character, but weaker than a F/T).

I agree with VAler. BAckstabbing is a good way to get rid of nasty mages and hated clerics.

 

Fighter/thief is certainly my preference. I've tried both, and found the Swashbuckler somewhat limited. The high-level abilities and weapon mastery tip the balance as far as I'm concerned.

 

I found that if I dual class an assassin into a fighter I end up with a tank that can backstab for 150-200 hit points. If you have the Items Upgrade Mod, you can even get the damage to exceed 200 with The Queitus+4. And if you equip a Swashbuckler with it, he can backstab since it raises his backstab multiplier by one. And through some mod I ended up with a dagger known as Yalla. It raises the multiplier by two, though I'm not sure where to find it at. These items put the Swashbuckler back in the race IMO. Then again, they also put the F/T back over the top.

 

equip the swashie with scarlet ninja-to +3 and you get another attack per round for free. (must get use any items ability first though).

based on this, i like the swashie better than the fighter\thief.

but useally i take a bounty hunter or the assasin instead. (which i like more than the swashie). or i take a kensai\thief.


and a pure thief can use any items just as a fighter\thief can, he\she just have to wait for the already mentioned high level ability (which should be avaible around end of chap three if you do all quest avaible in chap 2 including watchers keep).

 

My first powergame character was an Assassin Dual to Fighter at level 25 Assassin. However I have always intended making a Swashbuckler Fighter for other reasons. The improved AC and Thaco bonuses of the Swashbuckler plus UAI and Fighter skills in 2 handed sword and weapon style makes a very versatile "paladin" wielding Carsomyr +6...

The multiclassed fighter thief gets heaps more HLAs at a lower level (the xp total is still 3million, but it feels earlier) and so of course can do all sorts of things that the other combos can't.

Definitly worth trying them all. The only way a swashbuckler can backstab is with Weimer's Improved Weapons mod that has the +1 to backstab multiplier on the Quietus dagger.