POLL: Underage, but out of Country

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I have been unable to find an article about this, probably because it seems to be largely a local news story, so I'll give the basics here.

A high school in Howard County, Maryland, sponsored a spring break trip to Portugal for their students. As most of your are probably aware, the legal drinking age in the U.S. is 21, but it is much less in most European countries. While I don't know what the exact legal drinking age is in Portugal, it was mentioned on the news that all of the 17 and 18 year old students on the trip were old enough to drink there.

One day on the trip, while they were at a bar, the students asked their chaperone if it would be OK for them to purchase an alcoholic beverage. The chaperone told them that he saw no problem with it, and several students ordered a drink. All of them drank responsibly, only having a drink or two each. None of them became intoxicated.

Upon the return from their trip, the chaperone essentially ratted them out. The students were called to the principal's office where they were questioned about their activities on the trip. The ones that truthfully admitted they had a drink or two were suspended from school, while those that lied or remained silent and refused to answer the questions were let off with absolutely no punishment.

So is the school acting within its authority, or is this complete ? I can understand why a school could suspend students for drinking in the U.S. because they were underage, but I'm not sure I feel it is completely fair to suspend them when they are in a foreign country and are of the legal drinking age there. Kind of like the "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" Rule. The students' parents are contesting the suspensions, meaning that even the parents don't seem to have a problem with it. Furthermore, the school has it's senior prom this weekend, and the students who are suspended will not be allowed to attend if the suspension stands.

To me, the prom represents one of the highlights of the senior year, and punishing the students in this manner seems excessive. Moreso because the actions were not illegal in the country where they visited, they felt they were given permission by the chaperone, and that the parents don't have a problem with it. I also have a problem with the fact that the honest (but possibly stupid) students are being punished, whereas the liars are being let go. What kind of message is that sending to these teenagers? Your thoughts?

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 30 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

Poll Results: Underage, but out of Country (30 votes.)

Underage, but out of Country (Choose 1)
* The suspensions should stand - it is school policy that if you drink, you're suspended. - 7% (2)
* There should be punishment, but not this severe - there are mitigating circumstances that demand a less severe punishment. - 7% (2)
* They should not be punished - the student's actions were completely legal in the country they were visiting. - 87% (26)

 

I voted for the last one. It was legal in Portugal and they seemed to behave and respect the countries traditions, so they should not be punished.

But this is tricky, if they were having sex with child prostitutes and it was legal in that country, then they should be punished when they return to the US.

 

I also voted for the third one. The fact that they asked their chaperone first, he agreed, and none of them actually got plastered (enough to be reported in the news) shows that they knew what they were doing. If they'd gone out and got hammered then fine, something ought to be done, but this is going a bit far.

We're more relaxed in the U.K. (and most of Europe afaik) about drinking; whenever my school did trips abroad there was always a consent letter for parents to sign to allow us to drink, which inevitably got signed unless there were medical reasons. This is imho a much more hassle-free way of dealing with it. Argue with parents, not school. Enforcing it could be tricky, though, if the students are determined enough...

 

Well first off I think they were completely within their authoroty if they have the right to suspend students. In Finland if you travel Chezch(sp?)Republic and buy sex from a 16 year old girl you would be following the law of Chezch Republic but braking the law of Finland which means that in Finland you would be prosecuted if the Finnish authoroties found out about it. A crime against the Finnish law abroad is still a crime.

I did the same drinking and a bit worse on a trip to Germany during my "Gymnasium" studies (it's a bit like a crossbreed of High School and College) but did not get into much trouble because of it, since it's a commonly known fact that most Finns drink alcohol frequently before reaching the age of 18 which is the legal drinking age and because at that stage the school has no right to give suspension or anything similar and the only punishment really would be expelling and drinking abroad just is not a good enough reason for that.

EDIT: Formally though I broke the school rules though so if suspension was leagal at that stage of school I probably would have gotten suspended.

 

The main messages this is sending to teenagers:
a) never trust an adult (chaperone in this case).
b) never own up to anything.

Well, I keep strictly to these two rules, and they served me well so far...

 

Personally, I see nothing wrong with the students drinking in Portugal where they are of legal drinking age and I would be inclined not to punish them if they drank responsibly regardless of whether or not that is against the rules. I happen to disagree with Aldeth about the importance of the Prom (I have never regretted not attending mine - they sold so few tickets that it was nearly cancelled) but that is beside the point.

The question I suppose is whether or not the school informed the students that drinking on this school trip would not be permitted. I am sure that the students had all manner of permission forms to fill out before going on the trip and agreeing not to drink while on a school organized trip may very well have been one. If that is the case then the school is well entitled to suspend the students - even if they did nothing morally wrong.

 

Hehe, that reminds me of that US exchange pupil we had when I was in school and about 17. He was a nice guy, perpetually drunk, too. While that was my prime time as far as boozing is concerned, *he* didn't know when to stop and always drank on when I stopped because I noticed that we both couldn't stand anymore. Result: *I* didn't threw up.

Cunningly, taking to heart my fathers advice "Eat well, and stop when it stops tasting good!", I also have always had a quite substantial meal before going to a party ...

IMO that to a good degree vindicates the german approach to alcohole: consumption is allowed with 16, and purchase is free with 18. It's part of our lifestyle, and eating culture. That is, people get used to it more slowly. Alcohole is normal and therfor less attractive and certainly doesn't has the appeal of the prohibited.

But I have to admit and add that we also have problems with teenagers boozing. I fear that is somewhat natural, unfortunately. Kids want to test limits and by nature are imprudent. And those who are prudent are boring

I think the school's decision makes sense insofar as the school and the teachers have a repsonsibility to take care of their pupils. They could be accused of dereliction of duty, that is, oversight.
I can comprehend the concern on their part, especally considering possible lawsuits in the US.

They had to punish the kids to show how stern and tough they are, to pre-empt under-occupied and bored parents with too much free time from investing surplus energy in this and turning it into a major nuisance.

Trust me, I know what I'm talking about as both my sisters are teachers.

 

The chaperone is the one who should hang.

 

@JSSB - the school stated that there was nothing on the permission slip that explicitly stated not to drink, but it is contained within the student handbook. The student handbook covers all activities within the school, and all school-sponsored events. Since the trip was school-sponsored, it is a school-sponsored event. Since drinking can get you suspended at any school-sponsored event, an additional permission slip stating not to drink was superfulous.

My main problem is that I do not feel that the students were deliberately trying to break the rules. There was no malicious intent here. They asked permission, received permission, and were punished after the fact for something they thought they were allowed to do.

 

I agree with Rallymama -- the kids asked the chaperone. It was legal where they were. Once the chaperone said it was okay, the students should be absolved.

Any violation of the school rules should be on the chaperones head (after all that is what the chaperone was there for).

Cesard: Although I agree with the sentiment, I do not believe a citizen of one country should be punished at home for a legal act committed while in another country.

 

Cesard's example was a bit extreme. What about if they went to the Neatherlands and purchased hash? That's something that's illegal in the U.S. no matter what your age is. Although, it's probably illegal for a 17 year old to purchase hash in the Neatherlands, so that may be a moot point.

 

Bah, I still say the school should have included something in the permission forms saying that despite the fact that the students were of legal drinking age in Portugal, they were expected not to drink on the trip. My schools were always quite explicit about any/all rules expected to be followed on school trips.

That doesn't change my opinion though, these students did nothing really wrong and the school officials are being a bunch of overzealous prudes.


Oh, and from my understanding it is technically illegal for anyone to purchase hash in the Netherlands - there is just a stated policy that it will not be enforced.

 

@JSSB - There is one more point I left out, inadvertently. The permission slip did state that because the trip was a school-sponsored event, the students were expected to adhere to all rules pertaining to school-sponsored events. Whereas it can be argued that drinking should have been given special mention, to include everything on the permission slip would have meant reprinting the entire student handbook to the permission slip. Besides, ignorance of the rules do not provide immunity to them.

My personal opinion is that some punishment is probably in order, but there are definitely mitigating circumstances here that should be taken into account. Their punishment, for any concerned is that they are suspended for two weeks, and are barred from attending any school-sponsored events for one month, so essentially until the end of the school year.

 

In the UK they have undercover police officers stationed in the Phillipines to stop peodiphiles from taking advantage over there, though I am not sure if its legal for child prostitutes, its still a common problem.

As for the students drinking, it hurts no-one, even people in the US, unless they were causing problems in Portugal.

That chaperone sounds like one bitter individual!

 

What did the chaperone really do? Did he tell them it was OK but turn them in immediately after coming back? Or did he let it slip in a very clumsy way?

If he had told them it was OK to drink only to turn them in to the headmaster for punishment, then something is fundamentally wrong with himself and no one else. There's no place for such people in education.

I agree with Darkthrone on the messages it sends to the teenagers. Don't trust adults, don't own up to anything.

People who can't be trusted have no place in educating the young ones. I had little respect for dishonourable acts on teachers' part when I was a teenager and I did let that show. Especially if it involved breaking promises. Got my "conduct" grades lowered for some reason. Wonder why.

 

@ chev - the news did not specifically report how the news was leaked by the chaperone. I was under the opinion that he just casually mentioned it, because he honestly felt like it was no big deal. I don't think he deliberately tried to get the kids in trouble. I think he really thought it wasn't a big deal because the students were of legal age in Portugal.

 

Good for him. I suppose I went to far ahead with the "if he" part. But it isn't fair if students are suspended for a month while he gets away with it. He was supposed to know the rules better than they did and also to be the judge of the rules. The teenagers should have been able to rely on his judgement.

@Ragusa: This summer, I had the "pleasure" to meet a 17 year old half-German half-Pole from Westfalen. Wonder if he's ever been sober in his life.

 

If it was a school sponsored trip the school's rules prevail. If it wasn't than party on dude.

 

damn straight bro.

considering that the chaperone (the school's representative) agreed, he should be help accountaable. What a fcuknut.

 

I was about to say that the school and that chaperone person (new word for me) did wrong in this. But really, did they?

If I were to imagine a similar situation in the school I used to go in as a kid: School arranges a class-trip to some place. They say that the idea is to have fun and see the place out, but do nothing illegal. There will be no smoking, no drinking, etc. Then the kids ask their parents and find someone who they know will allow them to do what they want. So this person comes along and as predicted, he let's them drink and smoke as they want. The kids don't go over the line or anything, but they still break the rules.

Now, the school gets to know of this.

I can't say what law thinks about this. But in a typical situation, it would be the school that got the class together and helped them arrange the trip. Even if none of the teachers were with them, the responsibility over what happens on that trip would in a way, fall on the school. If it were my old school, they definitely would have reacted to behaviour like that. Suspension... well it's something you pretty much never hear about in Finland anyway. But there would be some form of punishment.

It's hard to say if it was right or wrong with the information we have. But the school could well have been right in this. In fact, the Finnish schools and parents could use more severe control methods like that, themselves.

If it was really about kids, then I would blame the school and that chaperone. But 16-17 yearold youngsters would probably know that it's wrong, even if the chaperone person couldn't care less what they did. And, well, liars almost always escape unscathed while the honest ones suffer the consequences. Sadly, the mental development and wisdom that comes with honesty isn't anything intangible... so you'll just have to decide for yourselves whether you want to belong into that group or not.