Population and Demographics

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I'm going to get in SO much trouble for this one. This thread is inspired by some of the comments made in the "Future of the EU" thread. I thought that since were getting away from the EU with this, I'd start here. Here goes:

As was mentioned, the birth rate among technologically advanced countries like the US, Canada, UK, France, the Nordic countries, etc is very low -- so low that someone mentioned that the pension plans in their country might not have sufficient children to support the retirees in a few years. My feeling is that it is not economically advantageous in these societies to have more than one or two children -- I know that my 3 are putting me in the poorhouse.

People from underdeveloped countries, though, there's another story. IIRC, they have bales of kids. Their populations are growing. These countries are busting at the seams, so they send their excess to the more developed countries. While this may fill jobs in the host country, it certainly places pressure on the host culture -- as someone mentioned, WASPS will become a minority in the US in the near future -- I'd say they already are in Canada.

Yet WASPS still hold a great deal of power. Will they take steps to make it more economically advantageous to have children? I say they will in an effort to preserve WASP culture. More babies cuts down on the need for immigration. Since the polarization of the world by 9/11, will such steps be part of the WASP backlash? Opinions, please.

 

Two things, What are WASP i assume you don't mean the animal. And second how are you going to get in to so much trouble for this?
I can' really say much more untill i find out what WASP stand for.

 

A WASP is a White Anglo Saxon Protestant. It basically stands for most whites in North America. While I believe myself to be a tolerant person, there are those who will see racist overtones in this topic.

 

Thanks now that i know that i can say my what i think.
I think they will end up doing exactly the same thing that has happened in so many other countries. Create laws, traditions and beleives to keep them selves in power. Its happened before and i wouldn't be suprised if it happens again. I wouldn't be surprise but i would be horrified.

 

This is a problem in all of the rich world. I actually think it is a greater problem in the Japan than anywhere else. The US has the least of a problem with this compared to other of the rich countries so atleast there it will take quite a while for the problem to be acute. If you look to Europe most countries already have large groups of immigrants that could work and help out the demographics but these are fugitives. Firstly we have the huge problem of getting buisnesses and companies to hire people from foreign countries without prejudices and the like. Which is not easy, racism is a widespread phenomena even if most people refrain from burning crosses they still are reluctant to hire Ali Hussein to their company. Another big problem is that fugitives often have no real interest in building a real life for them in the new country. Many of them just sit and wait for an oppurtunity to go back to their homeland not bothering to get into their new society as they are intent on leaving at first chance. Especially since many of them enjoy a higher standard of living in their new country without lifting a finger than what they got in their old by working their assess off. This leads to large parts of immigrant population instead of being the assets to a country that they could be instead are a drain. Add in that many fugitives suffer from all kinds of injuries from the wars they have fled and the governmental inclination to bunch them all together in one place where they have little if any contact with the society they live in we have a problem. Most European nations have huge human resources among the immigrants that gets wasted. Both due to our society's unwillingness to let them in and many fugitives reluctance to relinquish the thought of going home. All too often I hear stories about mr. Mustafa phD that works as a toilet cleaner. That indicates that something is seriously wrong.

 

One problem we see here in the states - and in some places, to much worse an extent than others - is that large communities of immigrants foster separatism. People come to America and expect to be handed their share of the proverbial pie without making any attempt to fit into the overall society. Don't get me wrong, I think it's WONDERFUL that there are neighborhoods where you don't hear English being spoken and you can find truly authentic ethnic foods and products. The problem I have is when people in such districts expect the rest of the community to bend over backwards to accomodate their particular culture. Folks, you came to America voluntarily - make some effort to fit in! The majority language spoken here is English, so if you want to interact with Americans, either get a translator or make an effort to learn it. I think most "white Americans" would be more tolerant if we weren't greeted with intolerance to begin with.

OK, end rant. To be more reasonable...

Velcro and I are both the grandchildren of Eastern European immigrants, folks who came over in the early 20th century and worked their butts to the bone to prosper. That work ethic ain't confined to Puritans, people. Wherever someone has worked to build a comfortable life for their loved ones, they'll fight hard to protect it. How hard you can fight depends upon your funding and your connections. When in doubt, follow the money.

 

You know, most of my friends growing up were either Chinese, Pakistani, Indian (as in Hindu, not Native American) or Punjabi. They were great people, and if I had a sister, I would have had no problems with any of those guys marrying her. I am very tolerant of their beliefs and practices.

There are those who immigrate, though, who don't make any effort to be decent to their new neighbours. I've seen immigrant women who won't talk to cashiers because the cashier is "common". What about respect for the society you've joined? In cases like that, I don't think it's racist at all to say "if that's how you want to behave, go back to where you came from." I mean, who's the real racist or bigot when you start calling others "commoners" or "low"? Toleration does not mean that we WASPs should take abuse when we are trying our best to get along and be welcoming.

 

Migration has alway been a constant of Human Life.
In the 19th century, as sideeffect of the industrialisation, Europe was like a bleeding heart, bleeding emmigrants all over the world, in unbelievable huge numbers.

But earlier, one of the main goals of European politics was to populate Europe, logically with immigrants. Most famous examples are Berlin and St. Petersburg. So, it's not the first time, demographie has become a problem in Europe, just a forgotten one.

To the asylum-seeker "boogeyman"
Asylum seekers and people who come to another country because of economical reasons (the poor and the hungry) can make a big contribution. -> Henry Kissinger and Madeline Albright were both WWII refugees, Collin Powell is a "secundo", his parents came from Jamaica. My country always profited from refugees like Jean Calvin and immigrants like Albert Einstein (He had to repeat hish-scool end-turn, because he fell through in Geography )
Ironically, the grandparents of the main-figure of our right-wing-foreigners-out party were refugees from Poland.

In my age-group, we have now an foreigner share of 35%. Mostly from former-Yougoslavia. That's acutally not such a big problem, because most of them are perfectly assimilated. But I must confess, I have huge xenophobia against them, which has something schizophrenic to it, because I went to school with them and now I work with them. Most of them are "Swiss" in my mind, that means, I don't recoignise them as foreigners, because they aren't recoignisable as foreigners anyway. The problem is, "assimilation failures". That should not happen.

"Assimilation failures" -> Language switching secundos. They can't neither speak their "own" language nor any Swiss language. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place. That's a worrying situation. They're future is spoiled.

At lord Depaara: I really know the problem you mention. That is very annoying and should not happen. But I personally see it as a give and take problem. The welcoming country (talking about mine) should put an effort in "assimilating" the newcomers:"You're welcome here, but please learn our language and our customs. We will do what we can to faciliate the process". And I personally think, that's the way for my country to go.

He, he, I used to have GF, which was a secundo from Italy. She could speak perfect swiss, but her mommy just couln't learn it. The proplem wasn't that she didn't want to, but she simply couldn't master the language. Pretty interesting communication, because I don't speak Italian.

 

Basically it takes a *real* commoner to refuse to talk to other people whom they call 'common' because they aren't as wealthy (which wealth is mostly only to come) or have shorter than 50 letters surnames. I believe it's some kind of racism - especially inappropriate if they come to the 'commoner's' own country seeking better conditions for themselves.

Our immigrants see as rather as soft-hearted suckers - who have those stupid, limiting morals and don't know how one earns his place

More and more criminals are immigrants - especially in organised criminal groups. Last times they even found more and more of them.

 

Sidenote: Hindus prefer, since Kashmir is out of the race for obvious reasons, European Alps. Our tourism industry had some problems in the beginning to adjust, but now it works quite well with them. They have now courses for employers to introduce them to rudimentary Indian customs. Generally, people think their great and nice tourists. They are just a little bit "funny". But Indians actually living here, that's very rare. So hinduism-clash is no problem.

 

O.K. i have to comment on the racial aspect of this one. i was born and raised in southern california, however i come from a Scottish and Ethiopian mixed background (wierd huh?) so i don't fit in anywhere. however, with the number of Mexican emmigrants constantly rising, i find myself unable to go shopping or even drive down the street without becoming very frustrated because the packages in the stores and even the billboards around town are all in spanish.
i don't think of myself as a racist, but i resent it none the less. if i were to move to France (god forbid) i would learn french. i would not expect the community to cater to my english speaking ways.

 

Question: USA -> I thought there was no "national" language in the USA. Or at least not on federal scale ?

I guess the Pennsylvania Dutch (mostly Amischi I guess)wouldn't feel to well, if English suddenly became mandatory language.

And isn't Spanish traditional language of New Mexico, California, Texas, Nevada, Florida, Alabama and Arizona anyway ?

 

@Yago: You're right, there is no official national language in the US. English is spoken overwhelmingly, even in the states you list, although there are pockets in every state where another language predominates. While many people in CA, NM, FL, etc. speak Spanish, English is still the majority language.

 

Yago - I live in Texas and mostly we speak a version of English, fairly well butchered, but still remotely English.