Question about my party of once-and-future paladins

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I'm starting a new round of IWD2 (normal, not HOF), and I've a question about paladin multiclassing. I like creating unusual non-powergaming parties, and the quirks this time are these:

-- All human characters in a 5-person party.

-- Each character has at least two levels of paladin.

-- My lead character is Pal 2 / Rogue x. Not tank material at all.

-- The other four are each Pal 2 / Sorc x, BUT each has a different focus, and they're required to take the spells of their particular focus first, even if they're useless. So only my Evocation-focused sorcerer is getting the blasting spells, at least at first; once no more of their "own" spells are available, the sorcerers can learn other schools' magic.

Lots of fun so far, and requiring more variety and experimentation than if I'd just had four Fireball-happy sorcerers. The rogue is a lousy but entertaining tank. And with five paladins, I can't collect quest rewards, but I also don't worry about fear spells. Still, I haven't progressed very far at all -- they're only just now hitting level four.

Which brings me to my question: would it be worth it to raise the Rogue's paladin levels to 4 instead of 2, for the divine spellcasting? Would that open up the ability to use high-powered healing objects like rods of resurrection and other clericky trinkets? I'm thinking such items would be a) limited to clerics, in which case paladin levels are irrelevant; b) limited to divine spellcasters, in which case giving at least one character four levels of paladin would be valuable; or c) limited generically to clerics, druids, and paladins, in which case the two levels suffice.

Anyone know offhand the answer to this? Thanks!

 

Hey GM, glad you'r back

I really don't know about items but I know that pally's can only use scrolls of spells that they may cast. Even though the Paladin may not yet be able to cast spells himself, he would still be able to cast spells available to paladins from scrolls.

Most such items are limited to classes. Just because it is enchanted with devine magic does not mean that a paladin will be able to use them, regardless of levels or spellcasting ability.
And shouldn't you have taken atleast a token Cleric?

 

Clerics are overrated!

 

Man this party is nice!
With paladins you don't really need a Cleric.

 

This is an interesting concept--it'd be neat to see a background story on the order these guys belong to...

As for magic items, your rogue's Use Magic Device skill coupled with his CHA modifier (both are fairly high, right?) should allow him to use some of those "cleric-y" items.

 

Thanks, Shrikant! I skipped a token cleric because a cleric would be useful. I'm trying to make an interesting but not-necessarily-effective group, and clerics are much too powerful. I only play clerics if I can mix them with rogue classes to keep it interesting.

They're an advance party of the Order of Broken Glass, el timtor. And that's a good idea about Use Magic Device. Gotta put those skillpoints somewhere...

Oh, and I forgot another quirky rule:

-- Rest as little as possible.

I've never liked the fact that there's no time pressure. You can rest between every battle and the enemy doesn't regroup. And it doesn't matter if you take days or months to retake the Shaengarne, you always arrive just in the nick of time to save the bridge. So I try to push forward as quickly and rapidly as possible. When I rest, I prefer it be at times that make sense -- when I'm back in town between missions, or such.

How to do this when a party is 80% spellcasting? Hmm...

If they survive a few more levels, I'll post their individual information. But first they have to endure the Warrens.

 

"-- Rest as little as possible.

I've never liked the fact that there's no time pressure. "

I absolutely agree with you here. If the time to win doesn't matter, than it doesn't matter how well you play as long as you finish the game eventually.

 

My advance party of the Order of Broken Glass is struggling...or, rather, I'm struggling to dredge up a few hours each month to play. My characters are only at level 6 (so two paladin levels and four levels of rogue or sorcerer). My take so far:

-- Playing without a tank is darn hard; playing without a tank or a cleric is suicide. (Or would be without that handy save/restore.) So far all my money is being poured into pouring out healing potions, and my hapless low-Constitution humans have to medicate between each battle. I knew health-care costs were going through the roof, but this is ridiculous!

-- Someday my Pal 2 / Rogue X character will be strong, but L6 ain't it.

-- Because all my characters had paladin levels, I couldn't get the quest from Yquog; because I couldn't get the quest, I had to kill him; and, now all his buddies are infuriated at me. That makes my travels through the Warrens much, much harder.

-- Since my spellcasters only have four levels of sorcerer, I don't yet have room-clearing spells like Fireball. The closest I have is the necromancer's Horror. Most awkward.

On the positive side:

-- My four sorcerers wield a mean longbow thanks to their paladin levels, and having four archers at once is surprisingly effective, at least in these early stages.

-- When the party is fully rested, my group can tear through anything. The variety of spells requires a lot of creativity, especially since my casters are forced to take spells I normally wouldn't. (Two of my casters don't even know Magic Missile.) So, for example, if a tough guy descends on me, my necromancer can Enfeeble him and my transmuter Blind him, while my enchanter Charms any of his friends and my evoker blows him apart at her leisure. The catch is that I'm loathe to rest...

 

Im picking Icewind Dale 2 up on Thursday and I must say I'll have to try this myself as it sounds like a challenge! I had a party of 2 drow sorcerers and it was too easy because of summons and resistances. So you'll be seeing me post here as of thursday and a comparison can be made. The only thing I am going to do different is to not allow my guys to cast any necromancy spells as that is focused on death and I just cant see a pally cast such spells. BG is getting a bit worn now as Ive played through with every possible party I can imagine..... even a bard party... although I never made it far!!

 

I just wish to say my respects for this great party idea! I absolutelly love rading about your journey Grey MAgistrate

Indeed different from most of the "ultimate builds" threads around

 

A li'l more progress on this lonely Friday night -- I pushed through the warrens, cleared out the garrison, and cleaned up most everything before the ice temple. (I've left the wolf cult alive for now while I raise the 19K to buy the Necklace of Missiles.) My characters are now L8, which means Pal 2 / Rogue 6 or Pal 2 / Sorc 6.

I'll admit that I've had to use some fancy footwork and careful archer-placement to get past some points, which maybe isn't TOTALLY realistic. The most egregious moment was when I found a fence and left my archers behind it while they mercilessly tore up the vicious critters on the other side who didn't think to look for the fence's gate. I almost felt guilty...but given that my party leader is a paladin with a gift for backstabbing, creative archery is hardly the biggest concern.

My rogue-paladin is slowly coming into his own. He has good sneaking ability, and now that he gets 3D6 for his sneak attack, he can make instant-kills on casters if he sneaks up before a fight begins. Very useful.

But the best news is that, with 6 Sorc levels, now we get L3 spells! Four big ones, and conveniently one for each caster: Dire Charm for the enchanter, Skull Trap for the necromancer, Slow for the transmuter, and (of course) Fireball for the evoker. I think the game is about to get MUCH easier.

As promised, now that I've escaped the warrens, let me lay out the character names and stats. Prepare to be horrified:

Trevor Knight
Pal 2 / Rogue X
STR -- 14
DEX -- 16
CON -- 08
INT -- 16
WIS -- 10
CHA -- 14

Tessa Cervantes
Pal 2 / Sorc X (Necromancy)
STR -- 10
DEX -- 12
CON -- 12
INT -- 14
WIS -- 10
CHA -- 20

Amnesty Seville
Pal 2 / Sorc X (Evocation)
STR -- 10
DEX -- 12
CON -- 10
INT -- 14
WIS -- 12
CHA -- 20

Domitien Jacartes
Pal 2 / Sorc X (Enchantment)
STR -- 08
DEX -- 10
CON -- 08
INT -- 16
WIS -- 16
CHA -- 20

Mikhail Verkhotvsev
Pal 2 / Sorc X (Transmutation)
STR -- 10
DEX -- 14
CON -- 08
INT -- 14
WIS -- 12
CHA -- 20

Notice a few things. First, each character has an appallingly low Constitution. (And did I mention that I don't permit resurrection, so I have to redo the battle if a character dies?) Second, each sorcerer has a Charisma of 20 as my one and only nod to powergaming. Third, note how difficult it was to spread the stat points around on the rogue-paladin. Every stat is important, and I'm a li'l embarassed by how low I put his Wisdom. (Oh well, he has Domitien to give him advice.) Plus, no character has an Intelligence lower than 14, even though they're Sorcerers and not Wizards -- think of 'em as liberal arts students, valuing knowledge for its own sake.

Tomorrow the Order of Broken Glass continues its forward progress. Melt that ice temple!

 

Finally started up my game of 4 Paladins/sorcerers and 1 paladin/thief. So far Targos is way easy. Only died once down when i fought that goblin boss in the cellar by the docks. But other than that I cut through them all! But thats just the start! I know its gonna get a lot harder as soon as I get to the front gates! But ill post here later on with my party information! So we will see!

[ October 24, 2005, 06:43: Message edited by: Darkstrike ]

 

Well its been a while since I last posted and I havn't gotten much further. In fact I have just finished Targos and that stupid wizard Phaen or whatever his names is has so far been the thoughest enemy yet. The final part of Targos was rather easy, just threw some sleep spells and drew the enemies over to allies like Olap Tamewater (Or whoever) and it got easy quick! But besides that my characters are level 3. So my characters are as follows:

Carvin Antag
Paladin 2/ Rouge 1
Str: 12
Dex: 17
Con: 10
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 14
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Small Blade x 2

Kinova Telgren
Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 1
Str: 11
Dex: 11
Con: 09
Int: 13
Wis: 14
Cha: 18
Feats: Spell Focus - Transmution x 2

Alyssa Tyrvan
Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 1
Str: 08
Dex: 12
Con: 13
Int: 12
Wis: 13
Cha: 18
Feats: Spell Focus - Necromancy x 2

Tatiana Gordena
Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 1
Str: 09
Dex: 12
Con: 09
Int: 16
Wis: 12
Cha: 18
Feats: Spell Focus - Enchantment x 2

Ivan Gerhundt
Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 1
Str: 11
Dex: 12
Con: 11
Int: 12
Wis: 12
Cha: 18
Feats: Spell Focus - Evocation x 1, Armored Arcana x 1

Next up, the shaengard bridge...... rather frightens me, thinking about how much of a pain it was to get out of Targos. Better spells by then so that will ease the torture. Posting again soon!

 

My hat's off to you, Darkstrike! I'd better get playing so I can keep ahead of you. Methinks your rogue paladin will do better than mine, with the Weapon Finesse and Small Blade -- mine is using long swords, no finesse. Too late to start over, though. Are you equipping him in heavy armor for the AC or light armor for the Evasion? I have all my sorcerers in light armor (with an Armored Arcana apiece).

Just t'warn you, I had a miserable time with the orcs until I freed the druid and his wife so I could access his healing ability. Same applies to most of the screens before the Shaengarde Bridge, alas, especially the last two without healers. And that darn troll in the cave gave me fits. Please don't be discouraged, it does get better...especially once you get level three spells!

As for the bridge, I didn't have any trouble staying alive, but I did have a lot of difficulty keeping the bridge from being torn down. I'll admit that I had to restore more times than I want to admit.

 

Well Gray you were right about Shaengarde bridge being a pain, although I just hid in the shadows after the first bunch and walked up behind where they are pummeling the beams and took them out and slowly worked my way through the rest. Might sound easy but I swear I restored at least 2 dozen times or so! Im equipping my thief in light armor, was thinking heavy untill he evaded a killer lightning bolt! The troll cave got me quite agitated untill I managed to squeeze a victory out of the battle.
As you can see I spent a bit too long playing today so I probably wont be posting for another 2 or 3 days if that! Good luck with your party! Oh and my party name is Heavenly Knights of the Arcane

 

I think that whole Shaengarne part of the game is great. It's so well balanced so that every encounter along there is just tough enough for your level and it's pretty relentless, especially if you rush in and get everything attacking you at once.

 

I agree with you there Harbourboy. One of my favourite parts of the game! Although some parties make it retardedly easy. Like a group of 5 Fighter/Clerics of Tempus. But thats for another time.

 

Just hit level 9 (so Pal 2 / Rogue 7 or Sorc 7) deep in the Ice Temple. I have a dreadful confession to make, however: I have so little time to play that I downloaded Weimer's ease-of-use mod to insta-polish the Battle Squares. Yes! It's true! And I would do it again!

I don't know that it would've been any more paladinically virtuous to slog a swarm of unnecessary battles against enslaved opponents summoned against their will from the depths purely for the sake of amusing Aurilites and Nickodemus...but let's just say that my characters aren't having any trouble sleeping at night.

Sherincal was embarrassingly easy. With four sorcerers, each launching Magic Missiles in rapid succession...it was no contest. It also helped that my enchanter charmed her underlings to give her other targets. The sorcerers only have that firepower level, though, because they'd already picked all the other possible spells in their school, so I won't be able to host Fireball quartets for many levels yet.

I find that it helps, more than I'd expected, to have a dedicated transmuter on hand who can pass out stat bonuses like candy. He's really helping my rogue-paladin to excel. The rogue is vicious against spellcasters thanks to his sneak attack -- not just the cheap hit before a battle, but if they dare cast anything in combat he can circle around and whack 'em. And his saving throws are climbing high enough such that he's evading most of the time now. Looking forward to Improved Evasion. I have him dual-wielding, which lowers his AC (he's supposed to be the anti-tank anyway) but gives him that much more swiping power. To say nothing of style!

Oh -- and related to the Battle Squares, I had my rogue-paladin drink that +2 Wis, -1 Dex potion. I was so ashamed of his low Wisdom score...I know that Dex is the most important stat to a rogue, but I couldn't let that Wisdom boost go by. I'll make it up to him at the L12 stat boost.

 

Quick update on my progress. Still slugging my way to Shaengarde Fort and its not easy! I also made the mistake of installing ease-of-use mod and I installed the randomize items portion and it made my life hell! Lost nearly all my armors and range weapons!!!! Also playing an evil party besides this one!

 

Never choose "Remove Fear"