Questions about a WS/T

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Thinking on my next game to make a Wizard Slayer and then dual him to a thief.

However, I do have a few questions, regarding what you can and can't use, and when you can use them again, as well as the spell failure thing, because I've heard conflicting reports.

This is the impression that I am under, and I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong.

1. As soon as you dual class to a thief, you will be able to use magical items like potions, rings, etc., and you will continue to be able to use them once you get your Wizard Slayer abilities back. In other words, UAI is not a necessary first-choice HLA in order to use additional magical equipment.

2. The 10% penalty to spell casting for each successful hit works on everything that casts spells, and it works even if the weapon you are using cannot cause damage to the creature in question. So, if I swing a regular, unenchanted dagger at the demi-lich, I'll get the message, "This weapon has no effect", but the demi-lich still gets a -10% on his ability to cast spells, correct? Conversely, even if the demi-lich casts PfMW, effectively making him immune to all weapon types, he still gets the -10% provided I can hit him, regardless of whether or not the "hit" causes damage.

3. I've heard all types of stories about what type of magic resistance a WS gets, ranging from 1% per level up to 3% per level, which means a question beyond the typical "dual at level 9 or dual at level 13" is a possibility.

4. Does MR work on everything spell related? For example if I have 20% magic resistnace does that mean any spell cast at me has a 20% chance of doing nothing, or does it mean I take 80% damage from damage based spells. I'm thinking it's the former, because there's no way you can be for example, 80% affected by the demi-lich's imprisonment spell.

 

1-You may not be able to use magic things even you are freshly dualled into thief. I dualled a cleric into a mage. He couldn't use daggers even when his cleric levels were inactive. So I think it applies for WS/T as well. So you definitely need UAI fast.

2-We debated this, and I THINK that PFMW and weapon immunities will stop your ability cold. If your weapon can NOT touch the creature you can not disrupth his spells or connection to wave.

3-I have no clue. Try and see. Those Wizard Slayers I fought were high level and had notable MR which I always had to lower first.

4-If you have %20 MR, a hostile spell will fail to affect you %20 of the time. If it bypasses your MR you are affected normally. Some spells bypass MR autpmatically, like Sunfire, Fire Storm, Dragon's Breath, AND Demilich/mage imprisonment. Sorry, you will be an easy picking for a demi-lich, you can'T cast Pfrom undead scrolls too. A bummer.

Hope I could help you.

 

OK, but what about this: Does a demi-lich get affected if you stike him with a non-magical weapon. Granted it won't do crap to harm him, but if all I have to do is carry around a regular unenchanted weapon to get the effect from a creature that casts protection from magical weapons, it's well worth it. Hell, I'll carry around a bunch of unenchanted darts in my quiver to use in a pinch.

EDIT: Actually that makes a new question for me - does the miscast effect work with missile weapons? I can probably chuck about 5 darts per round.

 

1. Definitely no. You can't use any WS-denied items after you dual, even after you regain the levels. You'll need UAI as soon as you can get it.

2. There was actually a bit of a discussion on this lately that was incredibly inconclusive due to inconsistencies on both sides. Really, it'd be nice if you'd use this thread to tell us what works and doesn't work as you progress through the game.

3. 1% per level.

4. Yes, and you're correct in assuming the former. Any spell that impacts you, whether it was directed at you or you're just in its area of effect, may or may not affect you, but if it does it will affect you fully (barring applicable saving throws, which are still rolled).

 

Lİke I said before, I don't think you would give casting penalty to a creature whom your weapon is ineffective.

Those wizardslayers I fought, gave a hard time to me as they disrupted my spells always. Once I casted PFMW, they stood no chance at all, I kept slaying them all one by one with spells without disruption eveb they hit me but said'weapon ineffective'.

 

@Silverstar:
Okay, so it doesn't work for you. But how many dozen mods do you have installed? Sure, it doesn't make any sense that you would be able to apply spell disruption if you didn't hit them, but I don't think that's how the game was originally coded. It's something that definitely should be fixed, but it might not be for everyone.

It should. The ability is applied as an affect directly (well, indirectly; there's an affect on the character that refers to another effect) to the character, so any hit with any weapon should do the trick. But you...uh...can't carry darts in your quiver; they have to be in your hand (quick weapon slot) or your backpack. Instead, I'd suggest you just make a stop at WK early to pick up the returning Crimson Dart +3.

 

Well I have ease of use installed, so in theory I could place up to 999 darts in my quickslot and switch to them. Note, I'm only suggesting this to see if I can effect a creature that can't be hit by unenchanced weapons to see if I get the effect of miscast magic. Darts were used as an example because they are fast, and since I'm not doing damage anyway, I don't care if they only do 1-3 points of damage.

 

No. I'm telling you from fighting a countless number of mages and other things with such effects in actual game play that it will not work if the weapon does not hit. I've swung at creatures the entire time they have protection from magic weapons up and not stopped them casting at all.

Yes it will work even with a non-magical weapon. it's the kit adding the affect and not the weapon.

Another player says it's 25% accumulative spell failure affect but in my game at least It's worked as written in the kit as far as the spell failure accumulating. That is 10% per hit. I've never been able to disable any caster completely after only 4 hits. I only had Ascension, the Monk HLA's from the oversight mod and Kelsey installed when I was playing. No Balderdash fixpack. Yes to the SoA and ToB patches.

The magic resistance works in a manner of you have a percent chance of any offensive spell not working at all based on the MR you have. You get 1%per level until you get to 20th. then it's basically 6 every 2 levels in the combination of 1%on one level and 5% on the other. Don't ask me why they did this but that's how they did it. the 10% from the hell trials does stack with it if you want it. So does the MR from items.

If the Magic Resistance doesn't block the spell then it's the same as if you didn't have any at all. Which could concievably be devestating. It also doesn't work against the demilich's imprisonment and a couple other things.

I have no idea if the miscast magic works on missiles you'd have to try it and let us know.


However just as a disclaimer to be fair about it all. This is not looking up different files and reading their contents and everything else. this is from my experience playing my game. Yours may or may not be different. In which case feel free to tell me that I suck and don't know what I'm talking about.

Note: Silverstar should also mention which Mod added them in. I suspect tactics and if that's true. Well we all know that tactics cheats horribly in ways that the PC's can't.

[ February 01, 2006, 21:46: Message edited by: starwalker ]

 

Sorry for re-asking the same question, but I'm confused by your answer. First you say no, and then you say yes. Does it or doesn't it?

 

no I say no. Sorry for the confusion.

If your weapon doesn't actually hit them. Meaning you miss the swing. stone skins are in the way. Something giving you the 'weapon innefective' message. No spell failure affect.

Also. it doesn't affect the Demi-lich either way. Though I've had it affect liches. Once somebody explained to me that the Demi-Lich is scripted and not casting like a creature with limits it made sense as to why not.


The yes in the part you copied however is to another question. you ask if you can wield a normal weapon and apply it to a creature. This yes you can. you can take a normal axe. smack a mage around and it will get the spell failure affect if the weapon can hit them.

 

I'm pretty sure that a WS's miscast magic effect does penetrate stoneskin. PFMW and PFNW seem to prevent it. But, I'm 99% certain that on my previous playthrough witha Wizard Slayer (BG2, TOB, Patch only) my MM effect passed through stoneskin. Otherwise there wouldn't be much of a point, really... if you're damaging the mage he can't cast anyway =P

 

1. Nope. You'll need to get UAI.

2. It's actually a 25% cumulative penalty which lasts for 5 rounds (30 seconds), and it only works on things that cast spells using the Spell() command. It doesn't work on ForceSpell, ReallyForceSpell or ApplySpell. What this means for people who don't know anything about the engine's scripting language is that it'll screw up most of a lich's spells, which are memorised as normal and cast in the same way a player character casts spells, but it won't stop it from using its 'contingencies' and 'sequencers' and things. It won't work against the scripted spell effects of beholders, or a dragon's breath weapon or wing buffet, and it won't work against a demilich's trap the soul ability. It's somewhat more complicated than that, but that's the best I can explain it.

And no, it doesn't work if whatever you're hitting is unaffected by your weapon as per PFMW or natural weapon enchantment immunities. Hitting a demilich with a weapon under +4 enchantment will not apply the casting failure. But it does go through stoneskin.

3. In my game it's +1% up to level 20, then +5% (?) for level 20 and every second level thereafter. I can't tell whether it's TOB, the TOB patch, or Baldurdash that's made it this way, but there's nothing like this in Baldurdash's fix list. I have a strong feeling starwalker's right and it'd normally be 2%, not 5%.

4. MR is a percentage chance for spells to fail outright on you. 20% MR means spells will do nothing to you 20% of the time, and affect you normally the other 80% of the time. But, there ARE spells and abilities that ignore MR.

This is all information I've looked up in the game files and then verified in-game. The only mod I have installed at present is Baldurdash, and the only wizard slayer-affecting changes listed on the Baldurdash site are item usability patches, so by rights this ought to be game standard.

Edit: by the way starwalker, you can test out the spell failure thing with just a copy of Shadowkeeper. Boot up a game and have your wizard slayer strike one of your own party members, then save the game. Open the save file using Shadowkeeper, scroll to whichever character you had your WS hit, then scroll over to the 'affects' tab. The casting failure effect should appear under that with the integer value next to it.

Double edit: bleh, my bad, it doesn't work with ranged attacks. Sorry, I was thinking of something else.

[ February 02, 2006, 06:47: Message edited by: Prine ]

 

The 5% and 1% alternations came with ToB. it's the high level advantage to the kit.

Hitting a stone skinned person counts as a non-hit doesn't it? That would mean the affect wouldn't work.

 

Stoneskin stops primary weapon damage, but additional weapon effects like bonus elemental damage, Carsomyr's dispel magic etc. pass straight through it. Melee hit effects like the WS' miscast magic aren't affected, either.

 

Yes, stoneskin only blocks initial damage, but additional effects (dispel, level drain, elemental damage, slow, poison, miscast failure, vorpal hit etc) will still affect the target. But PfMW or weapon immunity will stop the weapon from ever contacting, thus preventing ALL effects AFAIK. I rest my case.

Tactics add random thugs spawning in nights in Athkathlan streets, there are WSs in high level spawns, I have tested them truly, all thugs use normal PC abilities (heck they are even created like normal PCs totally) but they are very smart. I don't think they cheat or cheese like other, tougher tactics enemies.

 

Well, then honestly, I don't see the point of giving this build a chance. The most difficult part about hitting a spellcaster is actually causing the initial damage. If you can hit him, then he will fall very quickly regardless of whether or not he is affect by the miscast magic. And for this I can't use anything magical beyond armor and weapons? No thanks.

 

I am sorry to dissapoint you, but this is how it works, and it makes sense.

One advantage of WSs are their MR, don'T forget that, with correct gear and high enough level yo will be invulnerable to almost all spells, which is cool!

 

Is a WS/Thief with UAI weilding Carsomyr stoppable?


Mwuah hah hah hah!

 

Yes; it's actually somewhat pointlessly redundant. Since Carsomyr sets your MR to 50%, it would override all of the WS's natural MR, even if he already had more than 50% (at level 30+).

 

my wizard slayer is sporting 85%... 4 more levels and we're looking at basically untouchable. level 32 right now.